The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 3 · 1 year ago

Creating Employee & Business Value in Safety Training

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Different companies have different attitudes towards safety. There are those that just want to get new employees certified as quickly as possible so they can put them to work, and there are others who want to build robust safety programs.

Jon Cordoba, Owner of P3 Safety Solutions and Instructor at the OSHA Education Center at ASU, discusses why he thinks more companies should do the latter and why they should strive to build a foundation for employee development.

Topics covered:

  • How a proactive culture allows your organization to get ahead of problems
  • The importance of consistency in safety messaging
  • Tying motivation to safety
  • The benefits of investing in training and employee development

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You're listening to the safety management show. We're safety professional share engaging stories about their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learned along the way. Let's dig in. Hi and welcome to the safety management show. I'm Jack's. I'll be your host today and with me for a guest I have John Cordoba, the owner and president of pthree solutions here in Phoenix. He's also an instructor at the Osh Education Center at Asu and is a diving instructor. So really cool guy to have on the show. Super excited. Hi John, how are you good? Are You doing, Jackie? Fantastic. So I'm super excited to have John here. I was a student of John's not too long ago, excellent instructor, so you know. I got to see firsthand what he does and and how he does it. So super exciting to get some information from him today. John, one of the things that I think is really interesting is, you know, there's different commonly how beliefs that are out there in safety and I'm curious as to what's one that you passionately disagree with. Passionately disagree belief. First, let me say thank you for having me. It was a pleasure being your instructor when we're going through was actually very fun to be out there with you guys training. It was probably one of the more fun classes that I've had quite a while. Definitely lively. For sure. We are a fun bunch. I'm very fun so one of the beliefs that I'm I wouldn't say that I passionately disagree with, but a lot of times we believe that safety is the end all, be all for a compliance in our workplace and I think the safety professionals that do work in corporate America are held to a higher standard and a lot of people feel it in some circles that, you know, safety is to be the either the scapegoat or held accountable for all things safety related in the workplace, and I think that's a misconception because we have to work with teams. Were definitely a bridge between management and the employees and working between departments. It's not like we're belonging to one part or another, and so we have to have help from everybody in order to get compliance and, you know, safety in general. I think across to the employees and supporting and protecting the employers absolutely. I know one of the things we had talked about before was that there needs to be more eyes on safety, that it's not just left to the safety professional. Yeah, I believe. I believe that one hundred percent is we have a lot of companies that will have one or two or a few safety professionals on their staff, and those individuals are then tasks to go and attempt to see everything that's happening in the field. As you know, in construction it's much more difficult than it is in a warehouse setting or in general industry, where we're confined into a location where it's much easier to get around. But again, this kind of goes back to that misconception as safety is held accountable for everything compliance related. Is that we have to be able to train individuals to identify specific hazards and I believe that the future would be to train more supervisors in form and as in a safety professional role, not to say that they're going to be safety professionals, but more advanced hazard identification techniques. These are individuals that are mentors, that their employees look up to, that they have employees that they direct and they have a more direct influence on those employees behavior in the field or in the workspace. Then, let's say, an occasional safety professional walking around a space. I think that if we were to get more eyes, more people trained so that they can evaluate or see the hazards, then we'll start to see a reduction in those injuries. That's a really good point. You know, when it comes to safety, everybody needs to be accountable for it and, like you said, the leaders. You know, we look upon our leaders to lead us and but also if they embrace the safety culture, it's more inherent that the employees will as well. Yeah, I think it's important we collaborate with those in our organizations that want to take a better or bigger role in safety and the workplace and finding who those individuals are, creating those allies. If you're a safety professional and you need help, there's somebody else there that wants to be in that position, that wants to help with safety or work in compliance or do training, and I think if you find and pick apart those, you know, little niches and find those people, then you'll start to build a better coalition within the workplace. Yeah, you know, a really good point that you made there, and we had talked earlier or last time a little bit about, you know, getting into a partnership with the engineers and then management, how setting stuff up. You know, I really liked your take on that. So if you could elaborate a little bit on, you know, setting up a program or a site? Yeah, I think it goes back to what type of culture we want to build in our workplace. We have a direct influence as safety professionals to build that culture. I mean we're occasionally tasked...

...with building the culture, but we obviously have that influence and it goes back to the reactionary or proactive culture. And looking at a proactive culture is what are the partners within other divisions that we need to find within our organization so that we can be proactive. You know, just to say we want to be proactive is one thing, but to actually do it as much more difficult. And so, for example, in construction, working with engineers when they're creating structures and systems. You know, safety can have a role in that so that we can give our input so that it is proactive. The engineers now going to build it into the system, we're going to place it in the field and then that safety feature is going to be there. You know, for the protection of everybody. So things like that's where we're looking for little ways to develop relationships within our organization and then find out how we can apply our our skills in our safety profession, whatever that is, general industry, construction, you know, environmental, and then implying that to whatever it is we do, whether it's building a product, providing a service or, you know, constructing a building. I think that's a good starting point, is to find out who we can partner with to get those proactive approaches going. Yeah, you know, proactive is a must now, you know, when it comes to safety, and I know that we had discussed how everybody needs to start being more proactive. How do you think they can get ahead of a problem looking forward? It's tough to say. You know, I've worked in all different industries. I've worked for different companies that we've had different cultures and I think if you're in a reactionary culture in your organization and you can't get ahead of the problem, there's very little that can be done without support and management has to come in to help you play catch up. There's companies that I've been with it were so behind the ball and just reacting to the things that are happening that there's no light at the end of the tunnel. To even become proactive in that culture, it's very difficult to say. You know, I think it's it's baby steps, it's devising a plan, it's working the plan, it's working relationships and moving forward. If it's not a very fast process. It takes a lot of time and a lot of energy. But to become proactive, it's little things that we can do every day that you know, creates that value you. I would say that the habits and the values that are created from just being proactive within translate to the workplace. It's a slow process, absolutely it is. What's an idea or a way that you've discovered a better method of doing things since terms of safety? That's a tough question. I I don't and I think I told you this, we talked about it before, is like I never reinvented any wheels. Think I just taken some of the wheels and tweet them a little bit. Some of the things have been successful for me is in my growth in this profession. I've been doing this for, you know, two decades. Knowledge seems like a long time, but there's other people that have been doing it for much longer. For me, that I've been successful is that I've I've changed to the point of wanting other individuals to understand why we do things in order for them to be safe, to I think I've change my thought process to understanding that we have and we always will be working in some form of risk, and so how do I just reduce that risk enough to get it below something that may occur, or to create an awareness at an individual level and help the individuals understand why it's important to go home safe in the workplace, because ultimately what we do is is we support kind of in a hospitality sense. We support individuals to protect them from being injured on the job or having a fatality. We protect companies from having undo compliance issues and citations, and so we have to be able to do that more, I think, on an individual level. And so for me the shift has been over the last ten years, focusing more on individuals and changing maybe one person at a time instead of a group of people, because that one person can then help everybody else get, you know, up to speed and to work on it. So I think that's been my my change, my focus and polishing the wheel a little bit and then adapting. You know, with our current pandemic situations, we just have to be able to adapt to different scenarios and adapt to different environments and maybe we're a few more hats. I think that's a for me, a trait that I have that's been an asset and my my business and my career fantastic. And I know consistency is super important to you and I know as a student of yours, that you're real consistent in how you deliver and add to the information that you give. How is that affected? You know, being consistent affected your teaching style and you know out...

...in the field, I mean it's easy for me because I know I have a lot of practice and I get to say the same things over and over again and then make small adjustments here and there. But I think it's important that the message is consistent because there's a lot of myths that we see in compliance and we talked about in our classes some of the things that become that have in best practice that a lot of people now understand as as being a regulation and it's still a best practice. It's just been put through so many different cultures and kind of POPs up as regulation, and so I like to just spell the myths and focus just on what the interpretation of the standards might be according to whatever the scope of work is. So for me, the consistency part is staying true to the material the materials are. We have to interpret it a certain way, but not going beyond that interpretation into what I think is best practice. I think in some sense we need to train our employees a little bit more on the basics instead of going above and beyond, so that helps them understand at least at us at a foundational level, before we start to pile on all of the best practice that's out there. It's to me, I think, a little lazy to to train best practice in some senses, for example, trench and excavation, everything is type CE soil. Right, everybody says it's always types soil. But in doing that, where we think we're protecting those employees, but we're not. We're not giving enough information to make a decision for themselves. And so let's go back to the basics, let's simplify it, let's just train on what we have and that will develop that consistency and I think that's that's been a benefit to me is I'm very aware of making sure I give the correct information, that I'm not going above and beyond or, you know, creating more of a vagueness around what we teach, and so I think that's important for me. I think that helps, you know, with the student as well. I don't know, I don't know you went through a couple of my classes. So absolutely. You know, I liked the way that you repeated information, but you kept it easy to understand right. You didn't get crazy technical with anything. You know, you added on some stuff, but it wasn't until we understood the basic terminology and concept behind it before you started adding those layers. So definitely made it easy for me to understand. Yeah, I think I a long time ago I read a book somewhere, I was a motivational book or Business Book. At what makes McDonald's so successful, or what makes some of these fast food chains so successful, is that there's consistency in the food. You can go anywhere and get that food and it's going to taste exactly the same and other than making changes for upgrades and things like that, everything is always going to be exactly the same, and so that's important. You know, as far as delivery of the information. I think for me that's a really good way to look at it. You know. Now what do you think is? You know, we've all tried and failed in our lifetime and it will do it again. But what is something, I failure that you've experienced that you think other safety professionals are headed for? For me, I think it's self doubt. Am I doing things correctly for the right reasons? Is something that I've always questioned myself about. You know, I'm here in this industry, I've been in this industry for quite a while and for me I've always wondered, you know what I'm talking about, what I'm teaching, what I'm doing, does it help people? And I've had self doubt to the point where I've gotten stuck and not wanting to move forward. And I think for me that was a failure because had I gotten over that wall or that barricade in my mind, I would have progressed, you know, a few years ahead or I wouldn't be where I am now, I'd be advancing further in my career. But that type of failure is more, you know, an internal failure and just recognizing that we have to continue to do what we feel is right and even if it doesn't feel right at the time and the big picture, you know down the road it's going to make sense and it's all going to come together. And so when bouncing back from failures, for me the small failures are just opportunities to learn and not do that again. So for me I've become more decisive in my path and my career and what I want to do and I've work on focusing on just moving forward and not doubting myself anymore. I've proven that I can do it. I've been here for a couple of decades. You have, you have, you have a really good track record. You know, when we talked a little bit about just that, not moving forward, not acting, when you can write, do you find that other safety professionals may doubt what they think is the next best move for a company or for safety program Oh yeah, absolutely,...

...talking about friends, you know, and hearing we were reminisce, you know, with some of the colleagues that I have. But will look at where we came from, where we're at, where we want to go and thinking back on those times, you know, you'll hear it's like man, I wish I had gone to that company and I wish I had in stayed, or I wish I went into consulting or there's always regrets that you're going to have that you wish you did or didn't do. If those things are holding you back from doing what you want to do, then that's the blockade. That's where you have to figure out how to overcome that. If it's money, or if it's time or, you know, if it's some circumstance that you have in your life, all those things can be overcome if you just take a step forward in that direction. That step can be the tiniest of steps and you just have to start to gain momentum to get over that barricade, to get over that blockage, and those tiny steps will start to turn into, you know, strides and next thing you know you're running at it. So it's it's the momentum that you have to overcome. It's just those little tiny things that you can do to push yourself into that direction and I think a lot of safety professionals do that. Do I go into a certain you know, discipline and there's a lot of things that we talked about. You know, Watch company should I choose? Do I go for a promotion? You know, you never know until you're absolutely and not not try. I'm not going to say try. You never know until you do it. That's right, there is no try, according to Yoda. Absolutely, I just I love your attitude on, you know, taking the bull by the horns and really moving forward. You know, you've got a great place here. PTHREE, I've been to your your facility, your training facility. Fall pro is is, you know, your Gig and you're really good at it. You know, and I know that, particularly when it comes to like fall pro that's an area that's really hands on. What's a resource? And with the pandemic, of course, you know, we've been kind of limited over the last I don't know, what is it, year and a half now as to what we can and can't do. Is there a particular resource or tool that you find that other safety professionals aren't using to its fullest that maybe has evolved a little bit over this last year and a half, specifically about fall protection or just in general training in general, you know, to kind of facilitate training maybe a little bit better or differently. Yeah, I've saw some of my colleagues really distance themselves from Zoom and video conferencing all together, and that's one of the areas where we were able to really pull out ahead and and keep working during the height of the pandemic. Was We pivoted. We purchased the equipment, we got the cameras and then we went for all out zoom classes. I was giving as many zoom classes as possible to the point where Asu then started. You know, I think was the only Ed Center that was giving zoom classes across the country. We were we were having students from all over the country cook, you know, for the asu classes, and that technology is really evolved. Is We're starting to transition into a really technological timeframe for our industry and safety is it? Are we doing online training in LMS or we going blended? Can we still give instructor led I think video conferencing is a great avenue so that we can kind of bridge the blended learning with instructor led courses and there's a place for it. There's a new place for it that I think is not going to go away and I think if it's something that you're doing as far as training and you have a logistic issues with getting people into one classroom or you want to be able to control the online version of that so you're not, you know, you're not having the lms classes just being taken as random by somebody else or, you know, at different times. I think this video conferencing system in zoom and teams and whatever system you want to use is absolutely an intricate part of a training curriculum. You know, it has its place. It's difficult to give classes where there's a hands on, you know, portion to the course over zoom, obviously, because you have people not in the same space. yease. But I've successfully done demonstrations where we've we've all collectively, where I'm at and where the students are, can don harnesses and and have their gear set up and set up the gear and run through scenarios and and still have a handson portion, at least in demonstrations or under instruction through video to provide that level of experience on their end and still be remote, not have to have everybody in one space. So I would say if you if you haven't embraced the video conferencing training, do it. It is an amazing addition to your curriculum that you can add for your your organization and it has its place. I'm not saying for every course or for all training, but there is a purpose for it and I think it's here to stay. Nice you...

...know it definitely technology has made such a difference in, you know, the course of how we all have lived, you know, from with our family and friends to taking courses like you know you were just talking about. So I definitely people need to embrace it more. I think technology is starting to play a part in safety a little bit more now where it comes to the digital production of the safety meetings and the toolbox hawks and being able to give safety alerts to people out in the field. Now that a lot of companies are starting to go more digital, are you finding that with some of your colleagues in the safety community that they're starting to use more of a digital pathway for delivering the Safety Message? Yeah, I've, you know, I've seen ticktocks or being becoming more popular and safety and, you know, video conferencing obviously some of the technology were using for training tracking and the Qr Code Revolution for database and pulling out information on site. So there's all kinds of stuff out there that I'm envious of. That I want to play with, you know, and it's an exciting time because there's so much potential out there. I mean, if you want to design or build a system, you know, we have the capabilities. You can hire somebody on fiver to do some coding and you can start to create these types of systems. And so we're seeing our industry grow in technology and we've seen that over the last, you know, decade, fifteen years, and how much computerized systems have evolved in the safety industry. I'm excited to see what what we have down the line in ten years, you know, with virtual reality training and some of the other systems that are coming out, more robotics for inspection, you know, drones and Rovers and submarines. There's all kinds of stuff out there that I would love to play with. Very cool. There's definitely, you know, some interesting thing coming on the forefront now and you know, you mentioned integrating them with, you know, the hands on stuff as well. So I think that's going to be the wave of the future. You know, we've been to your facility. What's something that you recently tried within your company that you were got a surprising result from? Again, it's like you know, in my my organization, I'm growing, I'm learning and and I've only been independent with this company for less than a decade now. It is something that really stands out is getting help. You know, if, and this is really talking to the people that are working, as you know, solo artists and and the lone wolves, getting help is amazing. Asking for help and collaboration with you guys and collaborating and collaborating with other companies that we have around us that do similar things. I think that's probably something that I never would have realized until we started to do it. Now it's I'm a I'm a proponent for that. Is like, let's collaborate, let's see what we can accomplish together. There's enough work out there for everybody. Let's share ideas, let's let's share spaces, let's, you know, promote the safety and healthy living that we want out of our organizations. So yeah, I would say probably collaboration, collaborating with other industries and safety professionals, and it's been a fun time to do that. So meet a lot of great people. Yeah, there's some really interesting individuals out there. You know, they have their little niches when it comes to safety and we had talked a little bit about collaborating over being competitive in the partnership with other companies. What about networking within industry? Do you find that's easier now than it used to be? I'm more analog. I like to see people and be in places where people are and talk to people. I'm very audio, you know, auditory, so I like talking on the phone still and holding paper in my hands and things like that. So I recently attended a couple of like online conferences and it just didn't feel like a great networking experience and so I'm looking forward. We have a couple of conferences that are coming up, like aisy water and National Safety Council just announced they're going to be back in person. So I'm looking forward to those to get back and talking with people. I think the organizations that are out there that are still having meetings, even if it's on zoom, I think it's always going to be a great opportunity to network. Everybody has questions, no matter how experienced or how professional you think they are. They don't know everything. I don't know everything, so I'm always excited to learn something from somebody else. Yeah, it's really great to be able to learn new things from your peers and and just different ideas. I know you. You know kind of Your Business. You know you have the instructor part, but you're also kind of a little bit about hospitality kind of guy over there. I understand that. You know you sometimes let other companies come in and and use your facility. Tell us a little bit about that. So we have the Phoenix Safety Training Center here and Tempe. We have one in...

...another training center in Las Vegas, and I remember all is having a look for either a hotel or some type of coworking space to rent out. That really wasn't didn't have anything to do a safety right. It wasn't in a space that we can learn about safety topics, and so my idea was to open up a space that was a coworking space where you have, you know, a conference room, we have a warehouse, we have gear that it's available to all safety professionals. I don't I don't care if you're my competitor. You need a space to train a class. Come train a class. You know, obviously we rent the space out, but it's it's specific, it's a safe environment, it has the tools and it has the materials that we deal with and safety, you know, the hardware for fall protection, confined space gear, things like that. And so again it just goes back to my idea of partnership and collaboration is that we want to give a space to anybody that needs to train individuals to be safe in the workplace and give them the tools that are designed for our industry, not just some room and a high it or whatever. Other hotel probably have to pay like royalties for all these names. I'm just dropping. So yeah, I've been there before. In other industries. You know, we set up in hotel rooms and ball rooms and you know it's not the same as being in the location that you need to accomplish the job in. So you're kind of everything's makeshift and you know that. I don't know how safe it would be to, you know, be erecting a fake tower in the ball room at the higher insurance. Happened before, maybe not the highest, but outside in the parking lot. I've seen it. So you know. You know. I think your take on things is really interesting and I think some of it comes because you have a very background when it comes to safety, right. I know that you started in construction as a Labor right. So you you you worked your way through the ranks. How has that affected your view on safety? I personally been entered in the workplace, you know, before my safety career as a carpenter, and so I think that refocused my ideas about the industry. Is that there's other other parts of the industry that I love. I love construction. I've been in construction since I was a teenager and so it's really my area that I enjoy working with construction workers, being on a construction site and my experiences of obviously shaped me and my way that I train and deliver information. But I think it's just it gave me the ability to stay in this industry and be around the same people and the work that I love. I mean that's that's a unique experience. Everybody has their experience has provide them wisdom into how to work in this industry, but for me a developed a drive so that I can care for some of these people because I myself was injured and then working in the industry and seeing Mordanjur more injuries and investigating injuries and fatalities and looking into how we can prevent those. I think is really what's driven me for this longevity. I think the problem with some individuals might be, how do I sustain myself for such a long period of time in this industry? And you really have to have a drive and care for people. I think it's some very important that if you're in the any type of safety field, where we're dealing with occupational safety and employees, that you actually care for those individuals and want the best for them, and so I think that's kept me afloat even now, even delivering the same classes over and over again and saying the same things every day, is it's still each individuals different and maybe they haven't heard it before, and so I feel that that's impactful, and so that's been my my focus is, you know, to help people and to be in an industry with that we help people and to like people, and so I that's kept me going cool. You know, helping people. It's something that you do. I know it's something that you're passionate about. Not only do you do it, you know, every day at your job, but you have been known to do a little Alpine ski rescue. What is that compared to safe I did five years up at sunrise. I was on ski patrol and it's funny because I got into it as just kind of a way to get free lift tickets and so but it turned in. It turned it. I spent five years of at Sunrise doing volunteer and it was just another it was really simple, like kind of another form of safety. It's just another way to help people, and so I felt it was very easy to transition into kind of that rescue since it really it did rescue too many people. I was just traweying people down to a doctor. Well, you know, you never know, it could have happened. And I know that you had specific training when it came to rescue, particularly,...

...you know, with the snow there's you know, the avalanche risk and you know all those kind of risks that are involved. How did that training compare to some of the safety training that you teach? You know? I know you do some confined spaces and some heights rescue things with your training. Do those compare? It all in into the concepts behind them? I think I go back to like looking at my dive training and my dive my scuba dive training, like being on Ski Patrol, was prescribed. Everything was practice and then practice again and then practice again and then practice again and continually doing that with very long durations in the classroom and as well as hands on and I think that's the big difference that we see in technical training and more advanced training techniques is that we don't have that same prescribed training that we would like to give our employees because, you know, things happen. We want to get them in back to work situation. We want to get them productive. We don't have the time to spend money on them. Those are always excuses that we hear for either the lack of training or short duration of training. I think that's what the big difference is when you're going into when you're talking about rescuing somebody who we spent, you know, I think, almost half a year in the classroom and then we had to do a whole season on the mountain before we were able to even touch a patient. You know, when we did scuba diving in when I went through our instructor training and rescue training, it was grueling, it was physical, it was a lot of hours spent in the water, a lot of repetitive you're doing it wrong, do it again, you're doing it wrong, do it again. You know, and not to say that's a negative, but that drives you to continually keep going because at the end of that you get a certificate that says you can rescue people under water or you can, you know, provide medical service to this individual. It's very important and I think that's a big difference between what we give in an occupational setting, is that we have that lack of importance. What that final result is the lack of repetitive, prescribed training. Yeah, I totally understand. You know how that works and the way that we don't focus as much on repeating the information every day to our employees. You know, yeah, you have to wear a PPE. Well, it's hot, it's this, I think get fog gap, it's whatever. But if you don't repetitively impart that information, this is what you need to do, this is why you need to do it, this is how you need to do it right, do you find that's an area that a lot of places are lacking? We yeah, we tell people what to do and what to wear, but we don't explain the consequences of not doing that right. And so here's a rule, you must follow this rule. Well, why must I follow that rule and that goes back to a little bit of, you know, just being a little complacent in our instruction, is that we're not giving the student the ability to make those decisions because we're not giving enough information as to why we need to do that or what the consequences of doing that so that they can make that decision. And so I think that's where that prescribe training comes in, is that you're given all the information and then you go and do it hands on and if you fail at it, you have to do it again. And if you fail at it in real life, what is the end result? Right, and we understand those results can be catastrophic and theo we understand what the injuries or what type of injuries can occur because of those results. And so I think if we deliver that whole package, you know you need to wear a hard hat because if there's an overhead hazard and something falls on your head, it's going to kill you. And here is an image of what happens or here is a scenario of some place where it happened and that is the consequence. You know, that helps the student formulate an opinion of that a little bit better and retain it, and it goes back to, you know, values, what's held as a value and held as a priority. We're told what our priorities are, but we're not given the opportunity to create a value. And so, you know, I'm not saying that's in all cases, but a lot of times that's what it is. We're doing quick training, we want to get the employee in into a production capacity and so we lack that time frame to really drive it home and do that repetitive instruction or do the hands on portion, things like that. That's a great point and you mentioned that, you know, the production versus spending the time to really do safety. How do you think companies should start to incorporate safety as a value when it comes to production? That's...

...a tough question. That's really that's really hard. I mean that's that's something we could probably debate and ponder in a circle of committee and it never get to a conclusion. Of I think each each individual is going to hold something to value in safety for themselves, either through their experience or because they have to in the workplace. Creating values for individuals is very much an individual deal. That person has to create that value for themselves and I've been somewhat successful and helping to bridge that gap. And you know, you know, and starting my classes off with why are you here? Why did you wake up early and why do you go to work every day? Those are choices and understand the choices you make have consequences or benefits. And so to help somebody to start to create a value for themselves in safety, they have to understand what those choices are and what those consequences of benefits are. And the benefit is you get to go home and spend your check. Right. I mean, everybody's motivated to go to work to make money. Having that's I like money. I mean I like shoes, so I like my life traveling and diving, so I like money. That's one thing that we all have in common in the workplace, unless you're independently wealthy and you drive your Ferrari on Sundays and you're just doing it for fun, most of us are motivated so that we can pay the bills and, you know, do the things that we love to do and support our families and ourselves. And and so if you tie in that motivation, why are you here? What are you doing here? Why didn't you choose to stay home? And Watch, you know, TV all day. Then we can start to look at how we can poke the little holes into the their thought process and create some value for them. And then maybe it might be just one person out of that class that will stop and think, a man, I need to put my safety glasses on before I use this nail gun and it might have saved his I that day and and his job and, you know, his the way he lives his life and seize the whole world. You never know. You can't quantify that, and so it's it's a really tough question. How do you create value if somebody doesn't want to create that value? I have no answer to that. But you know, we can do some things to help them understand what the values are, between values and priorities. You know, I think it's interesting how, you know, companies really ramp up. It's all about production right. Get our guys trained, get them back on the job, get them done, get this done. So from a monetary standpoint, I think that more companies, particularly in construction, you know, need to focus on not only getting people properly trained but having them use what they're trained for and to carry that forward as they are being productive and I think that that's kind of an tendency that I see on my end that companies are having an issue with how you found that. It's a challenge each companies and independently is different, you know, and so they're motivations and priorities for production or a little different and we see things a little differently in general industry and construction. I think the problem right now is that, you know, if we look at construction, we have a shortage of good developed employees for trades and we have a lacking of workforce development and we're having a hard time finding employee he's that want to stay. And so we take a look at this, you know, the cost of training versus what you're going to get out of production and that employee. We have to one I think, do a better job of training the employee before we get them into their what they do right. We don't want to get them into the field and then train them afterwards, three weeks later. I think that's a big issue with with General Industry and construction. Both is just getting these people to work and then we'll worry about training later. I think that's one aspect of it. At another aspects that we need to look at training a little differently. So if we give good quality training, that becomes a benefit to the employee. Whether that employee stays with that company or not, that training is going to be marketing for your organization. And so if I gave really good training to an employee and they left because, let's say, they were getting offered a dollar more per hour, when they go to that other job they're going to talk about my training in a positive and that's going to be good marketing. Right. Every industry is cyclical. We see the same people coming in and around in the same industries, and so at some point that person might make its way back into your organization and they're going to do that because, hey, man, that training was amazing. You know that. That's all. That's one way to look at it. Yeah, they know, you know, but otherwise the bottom line is the bottom line of training. Cost Ten thousand dollars to develop an employee and you're losing them because somebody's offering them a dollar an hour more down the street. You know there's other issues that are going on beside it's of training and you're not going to be able to really affect that. It's a tough tough thing, you know, to talk about and we're always getting...

...nickeled in dime. You know, I'm an instructor and so I have to compete with pricing for LMS and other things and and so I have to provide good quality training. It's expected of me as a safety professional to to do that right. I'm not the one that's going to get him in and out of the door because you need them tomorrow and you have to have them squeeze in ten hours of training and you know eight. That's a tough thing. It's a tough for the professional that's being pushed by the management to develop these people as quickly as possible to get them ready for work. And it's tough on the company because there's a lot of money that's being spent on these individuals who are just, you know, going to go somewhere else eventually. And so if you're already going to spend the money on them and eventually some of those people are going to go somewhere else, why not provide him the best training some when they go somewhere else they can say hey, you know what, that place is cool. I got really good training there. You know, it's kind of a marketing thing. There's a lot of issues that, if we had the answers for on this podcast, we would be, you know, going on the speaking circuits right away if we could solve all these problem. Yeah, if we could solve all these problems, would be amazing. Do you know? The nice part about why I want to do this is because, you know, a I get to speak to different safety professionals throughout my day, right in and I get the companies that say, Hey, you know, I have to get this guy trained right away, I need them on a job. I just need to pass my compliance, you know. And and then you have other ones. They truly want to develop robust safety program and they want to put something in place. And so it does come down to, you know, what your company really about in terms of individual development for your employee, like you were speaking up, the proper training. And I'm finding, you know, when I speak with the companies, you know I do, you give your best training only to the guys that have been with you forever and just slap off on everybody else. To me, it's important to give everybody quality training, like you were saying, but I find there's such a variance in a company's attitudes towards safety and the development of their employees in regard to that. Is that something that you found in your experience as well? Yeah, it's. I mean we're still seeing in this day and age of compliance and we could say, you know, from the s into now, since I've been in this industry, you can see a big, huge turn and the attitude that companies are taking towards providing safety training for their employees. But there's still those employees or those employers that, you know, just want to get by, they just want to get to the next bid, and that's unfortunate because those employees are suffering because they don't know what's going on in the background, that somebody's just calling up and say it, I just need I need to get this class done like today so that I can get these guys to work out in the field tomorrow, and I don't really care about building a program I just need to get at the cert you know, so I can show that the search done. And it's unfortunate. I usually refuse work for those individuals night. I don't take that type of work. And then you have the foundation builders, like you said, people that really do care about the longevity and developing those employees, and we can see that in companies that hold those employees from long periods of time. If you have a company, and one comes to mind here locally, I won't see who it is, but it's a electric company, and going in and talking to them as a client, the majority of their employees have been with them ten, fifteen, twenty years and you're like, Oh man, what are you doing different? What's your secret magic spell that you put on your employees? And there's nothing, no magic to it. It's just they develop their employees and they spend the money, you know, and so you get what you pay for, I guess. In that sense, you take the time and you spend the money and you caringly develop that individual, not just because you care about their safety, but also that they can be the best that they can be working for you, and that translates to longevity and employees, and so I think that's that's still an issue. And then it's unfortunate that still in this day and age, we still have companies that are doing that. You know, I think it's less now than it was before, which is good, because they are held to a higher standard a compliance. Yeah, I'm finding more companies are moving towards development when it comes to safety. I have a really good friend of mine that works for a little gallect your company, and he's been there for many, many years, and I remember the I met him roughly a year ago and the first time that I met him he was wearing a t shirt that had the company logo on it and it had safety week on the back of it and I was like, Hmm, yeah, what do you do for Safety Week? Tell me about that, and he had this whole white big story about his company safety program and you know what they do in terms of safety and how they develop people. And you know, it's funny because I'm finding myself meeting more people outside of my work that are in the safety profession and it's just it seems it's kind of strange. You know, I haven't another friend that work at another large company here in town in one of their warehouses and and...

...she's in safety, and so I'm just like, how do we know all these safety people and I'm meeting them outside of here. So not only is safety like what I do during the day, but it's something I'm finding myself, you know, meeting individuals on a personal level that are involved in safety and, you know, I think it's quite a fun coincidence. You know, we have little safety conversations here and there, but do you find yourself meeting more people in safety out and about than you used to? Yeah, I don't think we could teased as much anymore. There's it's become such a diverse industry, not just here in the United States but globally. We're seeing just more and more diversity, more and more colleges offering safety, you know, degrees and were marketing towards this industry, to get into it through organizations like these BCSP and so yeah, we run into safety people and we kind of run in circles and, you know, I don't meet as many like just random safety people. It's more like I put my I put myself in positions where we are networking and things like that. But there's it's growing. It's growing exponentially and it's becoming a viable industry and it's very necess necessary for future workforces. Yeah, I think it's it's a great way, you know, for companies to build themselves and just, you know, make sure that they have, you know, their employees go home safe at night and and that's what you know. My daughter's like, well, you know, what do you do? You work for a company. What do you do? I said, I make sure companies get their employees home safe at night. That's the way I look at it. You know, I help them, help their employees. Man, I know that you do as well. If she asked you if you're an uber driver. Now I'm home safe. I'm lucky. She's nineteen. So, but I know yours is little. So I'm sure they have. They may have asked that question. Yeah, my son and my daughter, they come to the training center and they just see it as a jungle gym. You know, it's my older daughter. She's she's in her late twenties and she shows want everything to do with this industry, but she helps out when she can. It's not for everybody and it's it, but it's definitely a growing industry. This is you know, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, when I got into it, it was you know, you're you're the safety guy. You you got to have thick skin because you're just going to be bombarded on job sites and especially in construction. It was a tough role, where now it's becoming more technological overseeing more integration and engineering, you know, and in different industries and again, just more, more degrees and schools that are accepting it as a degree program so I think it's going to be great. Yeah, before we wrap things up, I kind of want to get an idea. I'm finding more younger people are starting to get into safety now right, like you said, there's there's more colleges and schools that are offering degrees in safety. Why? I want to say words of wisdom or bits of advice would you have to someone up and coming in safety? Well, if you're going through a degree program I would say find a mentor find find somebody that you can ask questions that will give you the time to answer the questions. You know, your degree is one part of that. You still have to get the job experience part, and so the more you're able to work with a mentor you're able to get into maybe some type of college program for Big Organization or Corporation to get the work experience, just realize that the the school portion is half of it. Now you have to go and interpret all that information in the field with real people, and so understand that and understand that if you're if you're in it for it, the industry it's a long haul. It's not a get rich, you know quick, type of industry, although some people make really good money doing it. But find somebody that you trust, that you can ask questions and that they have the time to answer those questions, that they will give you the time to do that. If you're not in a degree program you want to get into safety, find your local college. Most community colleges now are offering some type of occupational safety program there are tons of online programs that you can go through. Certificate programs. Asu Is a great example of that. You have the, you know, SSA, Choh or CSACHO certifications that you can get by taking a number of classes, which is recognized and, you know, again, look for a mentor or look for somebody that you can ask questions to and then that they're willing to take the time and answer those questions or spend time with you. It doesn't take long if you want to get into this industry. I've had friends that I've you know, it's like hey, man, get into the industry and five years later they're like, Dang it, I wish I had done what you told me to do like five years ago, but there's no time. There's no better time than now. Right like I said before, if it's something that you want to do, you have to then take those baby steps to do it. You don't have to go and spend thousands of dollars in a school. Find somebody who is willing to talk to you and give you some time and ask...

...those questions and they will help you out. We're in the industry of helping people. It should be very easy to find somebody to help you to get to the next level or to to help you give you a path to start it in this industry and on your career. Well, that is some really great sage advice from John, my instructor. John, it's really been a pleasure having you today. I hope that, you know, our folks listening picked up a couple tips and tricks and you know that they in part some bit of wisdom from what you had to say. I know I always enjoy speaking with you. It's always fun and hopefully we can have you on again. That's the safety management show for today. Thank you. Thanks join us again. Be Safe. In need of a blueprint for workplace safety and Compliance Safety Services Company is North America's leading provider of safety training and compliance solutions. We supply custom safety manuals and policies and onsite and online training solutions that will enhance the safety of your workplace, and our compliance services will save you time and resources, guaranteeing peace of mind. With eighteen years in the industry, we have a proven track record of helping customers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customized solutions that fit the unique needs of each business. To learn more, had to safety services companycom thanks for listening to the Safety Management Show. To hear more stories from safety leaders, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a rating. Until next time, stay safe.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (15)