The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 3 · 3 months ago

Creating Employee & Business Value in Safety Training

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Different companies have different attitudes towards safety. There are those that just want to get new employees certified as quickly as possible so they can put them to work, and there are others who want to build robust safety programs.

Jon Cordoba, Owner of P3 Safety Solutions and Instructor at the OSHA Education Center at ASU, discusses why he thinks more companies should do the latter and why they should strive to build a foundation for employee development.

Topics covered:

  • How a proactive culture allows your organization to get ahead of problems
  • The importance of consistency in safety messaging
  • Tying motivation to safety
  • The benefits of investing in training and employee development

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You are listening to the safetymanagement show where safety professionals share engaging storiesabout their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learnedalong the way, let's dig in hi and welcome to the safety management, showi'm jacks i'll, be your host today and with me for a guest. I have johncordoba, the owner and president of p three solutions here in phoenix he'salso an instructor at the ocean education center at asu and is a divinginstructor. So a really cool guy to have on the show super excited hi john.How are you good? How are you doing jackie fantastic? So i'm super excitedto have john here i was a student of johns not too long ago, excellentinstructor. So you know i got to see first hand what he does and and how hedoes it so super exciting to get some information from him today, john one ofthe things that i think is really interesting is you know, there'sdifferent commonly held beliefs that are out there in safety, and i'mcurious as to what's one that you passionately disagree with passionatelydisagree belief. First, let me say thank you for having me. It was apleasure being your instructor when, when we're going through, it wasactually very fun to be out there with you guys, training. It was probably oneof the more fun classes that i've had in quite a while, definitely lively forsure we are a fun bunch, i'm very fun. So one of the beliefs that i'm, iwouldn't say that i passionately disagree with, but a lotof times. We believe that safety is the end, all be all for a compliance in ourworkplace, and i think the safety professionals that do work in corporateamerica are held to a higher standard and a lot of people feel it in somecircles that you know safety is to be either the scapegoat or heldaccountable for all things. Safety related in the workplace- and i thinkthat's a misconception because we have to work with teams, we're definitely abridge between management and the employees and working betweendepartments. It's not like we're belonging to one part or another, andso we have to have help from everybody in order to get compliance, and youknow safety in general, i think across to the employees and supporting andprotecting the employers. Absolutely i know one of the things we had talkedabout before was that there needs to be more eyes on safety that it's not justleft to the safety professional yeah. I believe i believe that one hundredpercent is, we have a lot of companies that will have one or two or a fewsafety professionals on their staff and those individuals are then task to goand attempt to see everything that's happening in the field. As you know, inconstruction, it's much more difficult than it is in a warehouse setting or ingeneral industry where were confined into a location where it's much easierto get around. But again, this kind of goes back to misconception as safety isheld accountable for everything compliance relaters like we have to beable to train individuals to identify specific hazards, and i believe thatthe future would be to train more supervisors informant as an a sakiprofessional role, not to say that they're going to be safetyprofessionals, but more advance hazard identification techniques. These areindividuals that are mentors that their employees look up to that they theyhave employees that they direct and they have a more direct influence onthose employees behavior in the field or in the workspace, then, let's say anoccasional safety professional walking around the space. I think that if wewere to get more eyes more people trained so that they canevaluate or see the hazards, then we'll start to see a reduction in thoseinjuries. That's a really good point. You know when it comes to safety.Everybody needs to be accountable for it and, like you said the leaders, youknow we look upon our leaders to lead us and but also, if they embrace thesafety culture, it's more inherent that the employees will as well yeah. Ithink it's important we collaborate with those in our organizations thatwant to take a better or bigger role in safety in the workplace and finding whothose individuals are creating those allies, if you're, a safetyprofessional and you need help, there's somebody else there that wants to be inthat position. That wants to help with safety or work in compliance or dotraining, and i think, if you find and pick apart those you know little nichesand find those people, then you'll start to build a better coalitionwithin the workplace yeah. You know a really good point that you made thereand we had talked earlier or last time a little bit about you know gettinginto a partnership with the engineers and the management how setting stuff up you know. I reallyliked your take on that. So if you could elaborate a little bit on, youknow, setting up a program or a site yea, i think it goes back to what typeof culture we want to build in our workplace. We have a direct influenceof saki professionals to build that culture, a meanwe're occasionallytasked with building the culture, but...

...we obviously have that influence, andit goes back to the reactionary or proactive culture and looking at aproactive culture is what are the partners with, in other divisions, thatwe need to find within our organization so that we can be proactive. You knowjust to say we want to be productive as one thing, but to actually do it ismuch more difficult and so, for example, in construction working with engineerswhen they're creating structures and systems. You know, safety can have arole in that, so that we can give our input so that it is productive. Theengineer is now going to build it into the system, we're going to place it inthe field and then that safety feature is going to be there. You know for theprotection of everybody, so things like that, where we're looking for littleways to develop relationships within our organization and then find out howwe can apply our skills in our safety profession, whatever that is generalindustry construction, you know environmental and then implying that towhatever it is we do whether it's building a product providing a serviceor you know, constructing a building. I think that's a good starting point isto find out who we can partner with to get those proactive approaches goingyeah, you know, proactive is a must now. You know when it comes to safety, and iknow that we had discussed how everybody needs to start being moreproactive. How do you think they can get ahead of a problem? Looking forward?It's tough to say you know: i've worked in all different industries. I'veworked for different companies that we've had different cultures, and ithink, if you're in a reactionary culture in your organization- and youcan't get ahead of the problem, there's very little that can be done withoutsupport and management has to come in to help you play catch up. There'scompanies that i've been with that were so behind the ball and just reacting tothe things that are happening, that there's no light at the end of thetunnel to even become proactive in that culture. It's very difficult to say.You know, i think it's it's baby steps. It's devising a plan, it's working, theplan, it's working relationships and moving forward. If it's not a very fastprocess, it takes a lot of time and a lot of energy, but to become proactive.It's little things that we can do every day that you know creates that value. Iwould say that the habits and the values that are created from just beingproactive within translate to the workplace. It's a slow process.Absolutely it is what's that idea or a way that you've discovered a bettermethod of doing things since terms of safety? That's a tough question. Idon't- and i think i told you this when we talked about it before i was like inever reinvented any wheels, think i just taken some of the wheels and tweetthem a little bit. Some of the things i have been successful for me is in mygrowth in this profession. I've been doing this, for you know two decadesnow which it seems like a long time, but there's other people that have beendoing it for much longer. For me that i've been successful as that, i'vechanged to the point of wanting other individuals to understand why we dothings in order for them to be safe to. I think i've changed my thought processto understanding that we have, and we always will be working in some form ofrisk, and so how do i just reduce that risk enough to get it below somethingthat may occur or to create an awareness at an individual level andhelp the individuals understand why it's important to go home safe in theworkplace, because, ultimately, what we do is is we support kind of in ahospitality, since we support individuals to protect them from beinginjured on the job or having a fatality. We protect companies from having unduecompliance, issues and citations, and so we have to be able to do that more.I think on an individual level, and so for me the shift has been over the lastten years, focusing more on individuals and changing, maybe one person at atime instead of a group of people, because that one person can then helpeverybody else get you know up to speed and to work on it. So i think that'sbeen my my change, my focus in polishing the the wheel little bit andthen adapting you know with our current pandemic situations. We just have to beable to adapt to different scenarios and adapt to different environments,and maybe wear a few more hats. I think that's a for me, a trait that i havethat's been an asset in my business and my career, fantastic and i knowconsistency is super important to you, and i know, as a student of yours, thatyou're real consistent in how you deliver and add to the information thatyou give. How is that affected? You know being consistent affected, yourteaching style, and i you know out in...

...the field. I mean it's easy for mebecause i know i have a lot of practice and i get to say the same things overand over again and then make small adjustments here and there, but i thinkit's important that the message is consistent, because there's a lot ofmyths that we see in compliance. So we talked about in our classes, some ofthe things that become that have been best practiced, that a lot of peoplenow understand as as being a regulation, and it's still the best practice. It'sjust been put through so many different cultures and kind of pops up asregulation, and so i like to just spell the myths and focus just on what theinterpretation of the standards might be according to whatever the scope ofwork is so for me, the consistency part is staying true to the materialmaterials there. We have to interpret it a certain way, but not going beyondthat interpretation into what i think is best practice. I think in some sensewe need to train our employees a little bit more on the basics instead of goingabove and beyond. So that helps him understand, at least at at afoundational level before we start to pion all of the best practice. That'sout there. It's to me, i think, a little lazy to train best practice insome senses. For example trench an excavation everything is type sea, soilright. Everybody says it's always type, se soil, but in doing that we thinkwe're protecting those employees, but we're not we're not giving them enoughinformation to make a decision for themselves, and so let's go back to thebasics: let's simplify it, let's just train on what we have and that willdevelop that consistency, and i think that's that's been a benefit to me- isi'm very aware of making sure i give the correct information that i'm notgoing above and beyond, or you know, creating more of vagueness around whatwe teach and so i think, that's important for me. I think that helpsyou know with the student as well a i don't know you went through a couple ofmy classes. So absolutely you know i like the way that you repeatedinformation, but you kept it easy to understand right. You didn't get crazytechnical with anything. You know you added on some stuff, but it wasn'tuntil we understood the basic terminology and concept behind itbefore you started. Adding those layers so definitely made it easy for me tounderstand yeah, and i think, a long time ago i read a book somewhere. I wasa motivational book or business book at what makes mcdonald's so successful orwhat makes some of these fast food chains so successful. Is that there'sconsistency in the food you can go anywhere and get that food and it'sgoing to taste exactly the same and other than making changes for upgradesand things like that. Everything is always going to be exactly the same,and so that's important. You know as far as delivery of the information, ithink for me, that's a really good way to look at it. You know now. What doyou think is? You know, we've all tried be failed in our lifetime and we'll doit again. But what is something? A failure that you've experienced thatyou think other safety professionals are headed for for me. I think it'sself doubt am i doing things correctly, for the right reasons is something thati've always questioned myself about. You know i'm here in this industry.I've been in this industry for quite a while and for me i've always wonderedyou know what i'm talking about, what i'm teaching, what i'm doing does ithelp people and i've had self doubt to the point where i've gotten stuck innot wanting to move forward, and i think for me that was a failure becausehad i gotten over that wall or that barricade in my mind, i would haveprogressed. You know a few years ahead or i wouldn't be where i am now i'd beadvancing further in my career, but that type of failure is more. You knowan internal failure and just recognizing that we have to continue todo what we feel is right and even if it doesn't feel right at the time in thebig picture, you know down the road, it's going to make sense and it's allgoing to come together, and so, when bouncing back from failures. For me,the small failures are just opportunities to learn and not do that again. So, for me,i've become more decisive in my path and my career and what iwant to do, and i've work on focusing on just moving forward and not doubtingmyself anymore. I've proven that i can do it. I've been here for a couple ofdecades. You have you, have you have a reallygood track record? You know when we talked a little bit about just that notmoving forward not acting when you can right. Do you find that other safetyprofessionals may doubt what they think is the next best move for a company orfor a safety program? Oh yeah,...

...absolutely talking about friends, youknow and hearing we were reminisce. You know with someof the colleagues that i have will look at where we came from where we're atwhere we want to go and thinking back on those times. You know you'll hear itit's like man. I wish i had gone to that company and i wish i hadn't stayedor i wish i went into consulting or there's always regrets that you'regoing to have that you wish you did or didn't do if those things are holdingyou back from doing what you want to do, then that's the blockade, that's whereyou have to figure out how to overcome that. If it's money or if it's time oryou know, if it's some circumstance that you have in your life, all thosethings can be overcome. If you just take a step forward in that direction,that step can be the tiniest of steps, and you just have to start to gammomentum to get over that barricade to get over that blockage and those tinysteps with start to turn into you know strides and next thing you know you'rerunning at it. So it's it's! The momentum that you have to overcome isjust those little tiny things that you can do to push yourself into thatdirection and i think a lot of safety professionals do that. Do i go into acertain you know disciplined and yeah. There's a lot of things that we talkabout. You know what company should i choose? Do i go for a promotion? Youknow you never know until you absolutely and not not. Try, i'm notgoing to say try you never know until you do it that's right, because thereis no try according to yona. Absolutely i just i love your attitude on. Youknow taking the bull by the horns and really moving forward. You know. You'vegot a great place here. P. Three i've been to your your facility. Yourtraining facility fall pro is, is you know your gig and you're really good atit? You know, and i know that, particularlywhen it comes to like fall pro, that's an area, that's really hands on what'sa resource and with a pandemic, of course, you know we've been kind ofliminate over the last. I don't know what is a year and a half now as towhat we can and can't do. Is there a particular resource or a tool that youfind that other safety professionals aren't using to its fullest that maybehas evolved a little bit over this last year and a half specifically about fallprotection or just in general training in general? You know to kind offacilitate training, maybe a little bit better or differently. Yeah. I've sawsome of my. My colleagues really distanced themselves from zoom andvideo conferencing altogether and that's one of the areas where we wereable to really pull out ahead and and keep working during the height of thepandemic. Was we pivoted? We purchased the equipment, we got the cameras andthen we went for all out zoom classes. I was giving as many zoom classes aspossible to the point where asu then started. You know, i think, was theonly ed center that was giving zoom classes across the country we were. Wewere having students from all over the country cook. You know for the asuclasses and that technology is really evolved. Is we're starting totransition into a really technological time frame for our industry and safety.Is it? Are we doing online training in elms? Are we going blended? Can westill give instructor lead? I think video conferencing is a great avenue sothat we can kind of bridge the blended learning with instructor, led coursesand there's a place for it. There's a new place for it. That i think, is notgoing to go away and i think if it's something that you're doing as far astraining and you have logistic issues with getting people into one classroomor you want to be able to control the online version of that. So you're, notyou know, you're not having the ls classes just being taken as random bysomebody else or you know at different times. I think this video conferencingsystem in zoom and teams, and whatever system you want to use, is absolutelyan intricate part of a training curriculum. You know it has its place,it's difficult to give classes where there's a hands on. You know portion tothe course over zoom, obviously, because you have people not in the same space, but i'vesuccessfully done demonstrations where we've we've all collectively, where i'mat and where the students are, can don harnesses and and have their gears setup and set up the gear and run through scenarios and and still have a hands onportion, at least in demonstrations, or under instruction through video, toprovide that level of experience on their end and still be remote, not haveto have everybody in one space. So i would say if you, if you haven'tembraced the video conferencing training, do it. It is an amazingaddition to your curriculum that you can add for your your organization andit has its place, i'm not saying for every course or for all training, butthere is a purpose for it, and i think it's here to staya nice, you know it.Definitely. Technology has made such a...

...difference in you know the course ofhow we all have lived. You know from with our family and friends to takingcourses like you know you were just talking about, so i definitely peopleneed to embrace it more. I think technology is starting to play a partin safety, a little bit more now where it comes to the digital production ofthe safety meetings and the toll box talks and being able to give safetyalerts to people out in the field. Now that a lot of companies are starting togo more digital, are you finding that, with some of your colleagues in thesafety community that they're starting to use more of a digital pathway fordelivering the safety message? Yeah i've? You know i've seen tick, tacksare being becoming more popular and safety, and you know video conferencing.Obviously, some of the technology were using for training tracking in the qrcode revolution for database and and pulling out information on site, sothere's all kinds of stuff out there that i'm envious of that. I want toplay with you know, and it's an exciting time, because there's so muchpotential out there i mean if you want to design or build a system. You knowwe have the capabilities. You can hire somebody on five or to do some codingand you can start to create these types of systems and so we're seeing ourindustry grow in technology and we've seen that over the last you know decade,fifteen years and how much computerized systems have evolved in the safetyindustry, i'm excited to see what what we have down the line in ten years. Youknow, with virtual reality, training and some of the other systems that arecoming out more robotics for inspection. You know drones and rovers andsubmarines there's all kinds of stuff out there that i would love to playwith very cool there's. Definitely you know some interesting thing coming onthe forefront now, and you know you mentioned integrating them with. Youknow the hands on stuff as well. So i think that's going to be the wave ofthe future. You know we've been to your facility, what's something that yourecently tried within your company, that you were got a surprising resultfrom again. It's like you know in my in myorganization, i'm growing, i'm learning and and i've only been independent with this company for lessthan a decade now, but it's something that really stands out is getting help. You know- and this is really talking tothe people that are working. As you know- solo, artists and and the lonewolves. Getting help is amazing, asking for help and collaboration with youguys and collaborating and collaborating with other companies thatwe have around us that do similar things. I think that's probablysomething that i never would have realized until we started to do it now.I m of a proponent for that. It's like, let's collaborate, let's see what wecan accomplish together, there's enough work out there for everybody. Let'sshare ideas. Let's, let's share spaces. Let's you know, promote the safety andhealthy living that we want out of our organizations so yeah, i would say,probably collaboration collaborating with other industries and safetyprofessionals and it's been a fun time to do that. To meet a lot of greatpeople, yeah there's some some really interesting individuals out there. Youknow they have their little niches when it comes to safety and we had talked alittle bit about collaborating over being competitive in a partnership withother companies. So what about networking within the industry? Do youfind that's easier now than it used to be? I'm more analogue, i like to seepeople and be in places where people are and talk to people. I'm very odd ofyou. You know auditory, so i like talking on the phone still and holdingpaper in my hands, and things like that. So i recently attended a couple of likeonline conferences and it just didn't feel like a great networking experienceand so i'm looking forward. We have a couple of conferences that are comingup like azy, water and national safety council just announced they're going tobe back in person. So i'm looking forward to those to get back andtalking with people, i think the organizations that are out there thatare still having meetings. Even if it's on zoom, i think it's always going tobe a great opportunity to network everybody has questions, no matter howexperienced or how professional you think they are. They don't knoweverything. I don't know everything, so i'm always excited to learn somethingfrom somebody else. Yeah. It's really great to be able to learn new thingsfrom your peers and just different ideas. You know, i know you, you knowkind of your business. You know you have the instructor part, but you'realso kind of a little bit of a hospitality kind of guy over there. Iunderstand that you know you. Sometimes let other companies come in and and useyour facility tell us a little bit about that. So we have the phoenixsafety training center here in tempe...

...and we have one in another trainingcenter in las vegas, and i remember always having a look for either a hotelor some type of co working space to rent out that really wasn't. We didn'thave anything to do with safety right. It wasn't in a space that we can learnabout safety topics, and so my idea was to open up a space that was a coworking space. Where you have, you know a conference room, we have a warehouse,we have gear that it's available to all safety professionals. I don't i don'tcare. If you're my competitor, you need a space to train a class. Come train aclass. You know. Obviously we rent the space out, but it's it's specific. It'sa a safe environment, it has the tools and it has the materials that we dealwith and safety. You know the hardware for fall protection confined space gear.Things like that, and so again it just goes back to my idea of partnership,and collaboration is that we want to give a space to anybody that needs totrain individuals to be safe in the workplace and give them the tools thatare designed for our industry, not just some room and a hied or whatever thehotel probably have to pay like royalties. For all these names, i'mjust dropping now so yeah i've been there before in otherindustries. You know we set up in hotel rooms and ball rooms, and you know it'snot the same as being in the location that you need to accomplish the job inso you're kind of everything's make shift- and you know i don't know howsafe it would be to you know, be erecting a fake tower in the ball roomat the high. Pretty sorts happened before, maybe not the hyatt but outsidein the parking lot. I seen it so you know, i think your take onthings is really interesting and i think some of it comes because you havea very background when it comes to safety right. I know that you startedin construction as a labor right, so you worked your way through the ranks.How was that affected your view on safety? I personally been injured inthe workplace. You know before my safety career as a carpenter, and so ithink that refocused my ideas about the industry. Is that there's other otherparts of the industry that i love? I love construction. I've been inconstruction since i was a teenager, and so it's really my area that i enjoyworking with construction work, workers being on a construction site and myexperiences of obviously shaped me and my the way that i train and deliverinformation, but i think it's just it gave me the ability to stay in thisindustry and be around the same people and the work that i love. I mean,that's, that's a unique experience. Everybody has their experiences,provide them wisdom into how to work in this industry. But for me i developed adrive so that i can care for some of these people, because i myself wasinjured and then working in the industry and seeing morgage moreinjuries and investigating injuries and fatalities and looking into how we canprevent those, i think, is really what's driven me for this longevity. Ithink the problem with some individuals might be. How do i sustain myself forsuch a long period of time in this industry and you really have to have adrive and care for people. I think it's very important that if you're in theany type of safety field, where we're dealing with occupational safety andemployees that you actually care for those individuals and want the best forthem- and so i think that's kept me afloat even now- even delivering thesame classes over and over again and saying the same things every day isit's still each individuals different and maybe they haven't heard it before,and so i feel that that's impactful, and so that's been my my focus is youknow, to help people and to be in an industry with that we help people andto like people, and so i that's kept me going cool. You know helping people,it's something that you do. I know it's something that you're passionate about.Not only do you do it, you know every day at your job, but you have beenknown to do a little alpine ski rescue. What is that compare to safe? I didfive years up at sunrise was on ski patrol and it's funny because i gotinto it as just kind of a way to get free lift tickets. So but it turned init turned out. I spent five years up at sunrise, doing volunteer and it wasjust another. It was really simple, like kind of another form of safety,it's just another way to help people, and so i felt it was very easy totransition into kind of that rescue since it really i didn't rescue toomany people. I was just trolling people down to a doctor. Well, you know younever know what could have happened,...

...and i know that you had specifictraining when it came to rescue, particularly you know with the snowthere's you know the avalanche risk and you know all those kind of risks thatare involved. How did that training compared to some of the safety trainingthat you teach? You know? I know you do some confined spaces and some heightsrescue things with your training. Do those compare at all in to the conceptsbehind them. I think i'd go back to like looking at my dive training and mydive. My scuba dive training like being on ski patrol, was prescribed.Everything was practice and then practice again and then practice againand then practice again and to continually doing that with very longdurations in the classroom and as well as hands on, and i think that's the bigdifference that we see in technical training and more advanced trainingtechniques is that we don't have that same prescribed training that we wouldlike to give our employees, because you know things happen. We want to get themin back to work situation. We want to get them productive. We don't have thetime to spend money on them. Those are always excuses that we hear for eitherthe lack of training or short duration of training. I think that's what thebig difference is when you're going into when you're talking about rescuingsomebody we spent you know, i think, almost half a year in the classroom,and then we had to do a whole season on the mountain before we were able toeven touch a patient. You know when we did scuba dive in when i went throughour instructor training and rescue training. It was grueling, it wasphysical. It was a lot of hours spent in the water a lot of repetitive you're,doing it wrong. Do it again, you're doing it rog. Do it again, you know andnot to say that's a negative, but that drives you to continually keep going,because at the end of that you get a certificate that says you can rescuepeople under water or you can. You know, provide medical service to thisindividual. It's very important and i think that's a big difference betweenwhat we give in an occupational setting is that we have that lack of importance.What that final result is the lack of repetitive prescribed training yeah. Itotally understand you know how that works and the way that we don't focusas much on repeating the information every day to our employees. You know,yeah, you have to wear a ppe. Well, it's hot! It's this! They get fogged up,it's whatever, but if you don't repetitively impart that information.This is what you need to do. This is why you need to do it. This is how youneed to do it right. Do you find that's an area that a lot of places arelacking? We have we tell people what to do and what to wear, but we don'texplain the consequences of not doing that right and so here's a rule. Youmust follow this rule. Well, why must i follow that rule and that it goes backto a little bit of you know just being a little complacent in ourinstruction. Is that we're not giving the student the ability to make thosedecisions because we're not giving enough information as to why we need todo that or what the consequences of doing that so that they can make thatdecision, and so i think that's where that prescribed training comes in. Isthat you're, given all the information and then you go and do it hands on andif you fail at it, you have to do it again and if you fail at it in reallife, what is the end result right and we understand those results can becatastrophic and though we understand what the injuries or what type ofinjuries can occur because of those results. And so i think if we deliverthat whole package, you know you need to wear a hard hat, because if there'san overhead hazard and something falls on your head, it's going to kill you,and here is an image of what happens. Or here is a scenario of some placewhere it happened, and that is the consequence. You know that helps thestudent formulate an opinion of that a little bit better and retain it, and itgoes back to you know, values what's held as a value and how does a prioritywe're told what our priorities are, but we're not given the opportunity tocreate a value, and so you know i'm not saying that's in all cases, but a lotof times. That's what it is, we're doing: quick training. We want to getthe employee in into a production capacity, and so we lack that timeframe to really drive it home and do that repetitive construction or do thehands on portion things like that. That's a great point- and you mentionedthat you know the production versus spending the time to really do safety.How do you think companies should start toincorporate safety as of valuee when it...

...comes to production? That's a toughquestion. That's really! That's really hard! I mean that's, that's somethingwe could probably debate and ponder into circle of a committee and it neverget to a conclusion of. I think each each individual is going to holdsomething to value in safety for themselves, either through theirexperience or because they have to in the workplace. Creating values for individuals is verymuch an individual deal. That person has to create that value for themselvesand i've been somewhat successful in helping to bridge that gap, and youknow you know and starting my classes off with. Why are you here? Why did youwake up early, and why do you go to work every day? Those are choices andunderstand the choices you make have consequences or benefits, and so tohelp somebody to start to create a value for themselves in safety. Theyhave to understand what those choices are and what those consequences ofbenefits are and the benefit is you get to go home and spend your check right?I mean everybody's motivated to go to work. To make money, i mean that's ilike money, i mean. Ah i like she, so i like my like traveling an bivin, so ilike money, that's one thing that we all have in common in the workplaceunless you're independently wealthy and you drive your ferarri on sundays andyou're, just doing it for fun. Most of us are motivated so that we can pay thebills and you know, do the things that we love to do and support our familiesand ourselves and- and so, if you tie in that motivation, why are you here?What are you doing here? Why didn't you choose to stay home and watch? You knowtv all day, then we can start to look at how we can poke the little holesinto the their thought process and create some value for them and thenmaybe i wit ye just one person out of that class. That'll, stop and think,hey man. I need to put my sate glasses on before i use this nail gun and itmight have saved his i that day and his job- and you know, is the way he liveshis life and seize the whole world. You never know you can't quantify that, andso it's it's a really tough question. How do you create value if somebodydoesn't want to create that value? I have no answer to that, but you know wecan do some things to help them understand what the values are betweenvalues and priorities. You know, i think it's interesting, how you knowcompanies really ramp up. It's all about production right, get our guystrained, get them back on the job. Get them done, get this done so from a monetary standpoint. I think that morecompanies, particularly in construction, you know, need to focus on not onlygetting people properly trained but having them use what they're trainedfor and to carry that forward as they are being productive, and i think thatthat's kind of a tendency that i see on my end that companies are having anissue with. How have you found that it's a challenge, each companies andindependently is different. You know, and so their motivations and prioritiesfor production are a little different yeah. We see things a littledifferently in general, industry and construction. I think the problem rightnow is that you know. If we look at construction, we have a shortage of good developed employees for trades andwe have a lacking of work, force, development and we're having a hardtime finding employees that want to stay, and so take a look at this. Youknow the cost of training versus what you're going to get out of productionand that employee we have to want, i think, do a better job of training. Theemployee, before we get em en to their what they do right. They wouldn't wantto get them into the field and then train them afterwards. Three weekslater, i think that's a big issue with with general industry and construction.Both is just getting these people to work and they will worry about traininglater. I think that's one aspect of it: another aspects that we need to look attraining a little differently. So if we give good quality training that becomesa benefit to the employee, whether that employee stays with that company or not,that training is going to be marketing for your organization, and so, if igave really good training to an employee and they left because let'ssay they were getting offered a dollar more per hour when they go to thatother job. They're going to talk about my training in a positive and that'sgoing to be good marketing right. Every industry is cyclical. We see the samepeople coming in and around in the same industries, and so at some point thatperson might make its way back into your organization and they're going todo that, because hey man, that training was amazing. You know, that's a that'sone way to look at it yeah. They know you know, but it otherwise. The bottomline is the bottom line. If training cost ten and dollars to develop anemployee and you're losing them because somebody's offering him a dollar anhour or more down the street, you know there's other issues that are going on.Besides the training and you're not going to be able to really affect that,it's a tough, tough thing. You know t...

...to talk about a d, an we're alwaysgetting nickeled in dime. You know i'm an instructor, and so i have to competewith pricing for elms and other things, and so i have to provide good qualitytraining. It's expected of me as a safety professional to do that right.I'm not the one! That's going to get him in and out of the door, because youneed them tomorrow and you have to have them squeeze in ten hours of training,and you know eight, that's a tough thing. It's a tough for theprofessional, that's being pushed by the management to develop these peopleas quickly as possible to get them ready for work, and it's tough for thecompany, because there's a lot of money that's been spent on these individualswho are just you know, going to go somewhere else eventually, and so you,if you're, already going to spend the money on them and eventually some ofthose people are going to go somewhere else. Why not provide him the besttraining so when they go somewhere else, they can say hey. You know what thatplace is cool. I got really good training it there. You know it's kindof a marketing thing, there's a lot of issues that if we had the answers foron this podcast, we would be. You know going on the speaking circuits rightaway. If we could solve all these problems yeah, we could solve all theseproblems, o amazing. You know the nice part about why i want to do this isbecause you know a i get to speak to different safety professionalsthroughout my day right and i get the companies that say hey. You know i haveto get this guy trained right away. I need him on a job. I just need to passmy compliance. You know, and then you have other ones that truly want todevelop a robust safety program and they want to put something in place,and so it does come down to. You know what your company really about in termsof individual development for your employee, like you were speaking up theproper training and i'm finding. You know when i speak with companies, youknow: do you give your best training only to the guys that have been withyou forever and just slack off on everybody else? To me, it's importantto give everybody quality training like you were saying, but i find there'ssuch a variance in a company's attitudes towards safety and thedevelopment of their employees. In regard to that, is that something thatyou found in your experience as well yeah? It's i mean we're still seeing inthis day and age of compliance. We could say you know from the s and now,since i've been in this industry, you c n see a big huge turn and the attitudethat companies are taking towards providing safety training for theiremployees. But there's still those employees are those employers that youknow just want to get by. They just want to get to the next bid and that'sunfortunate because those employees are suffering because they don't knowwhat's going on in the background that somebody's just calling up and saying ijust need. I need to get this class done like today, so that i can getthese guys to work out in the field tomorrow, and i don't really care aboutbuilding a program. I just need to give it assert you know, so i can show thatthe sertin and it's unfortunate, i usually refuse work for thoseindividuals, and i don't take that type of work. And then you have thefoundation. Builders, like you, said people that really do care about thelongevity and developing those employees, and we could see that incompanies that hold those employees from long periods of time. If you havea company and one comes to mind here locally, i won't say who it is, butit's electric company and going in and talking to them is a client. Themajority of their employees have been with them ten fifteen twenty years andyou're like oh man. What are you doing different? What's your secret magicspell that you put on your employes and there's nothing no magic to it, it'sjust they develop their employees and they spend the money you know, and soyou get what you pay for. I guess in that sense you take the time and youspend the money and you caring ly, develop that individual, not justbecause you care about their safety, but also that they can be the best thatthey can be working for you, and that translates to longevity and employees,and so i think that's that's still an issue, and then it's unfortunate thatstill in this day and age, we still have companies that are doing that. Youknow, i think it's less now than it was before, which is good because they areheld to a higher standard of compliance yeah, i'm finding more companies aremoving towards development when it comes to safety. I have a really goodfriend of mine that works for a local at your company and he's been there formany many years, and i remember the i met him roughly a year ago and thefirst time that i met him. He was wearing a tshirt that had the companylogo on it and it had safety week on the back of it, and i was like hum yeah.What do you do for safety? Le tell me about that, and he had this whole likebig story about his company's safety program, and you know what they do interms of safety and how they develop people- and you know it's funny,because i'm finding myself meeting more people outside of my work that are inthe safety profession and it's just it seems it's kind of stranged. You know ihave another friend that work at...

...another large company here in town, inone of their warehouses and and she's in safety, and so i'm just like how dowe know all these safety people and i'm meeting them outside of here? So notonly is safety like what i do during the day, but it's something i'm findingmyself. You know meaning individuals on a personal level that are involved insafety, and you know i think it's quite fun coincidence. You know we havelittle safety conversations here and there. But do you find yourself meetingmore people in safety out and about than you used to yeah? I don't think wecould teased as much anymore there. It's become such a diverse industry,not just here in the united states, but globally were seeing just more and morediversity. More and more colleges offering safety. You know degrees andwere marketing towards this industry to get into it through organizations likeb, b, csp and so yeah. We run into safety people and we kind of run incircles, and you know i don't meet as many like just random safety people.It's more like i put my i put myself in positions where we are networking andthings like that, but there's it's growing. It's growing expotentials yand it's becoming a viable industry and very necessary for future work forcesyeah. I think it's a great way. You know for companies to build themselvesand an just you know make sure that they have. You know their employees gohome safe at night, and and that's what you know my daughter's like. Well, youknow: what do you do you work for a company? What do you do? I said i makesure companies get their employees home safe at night. That's the way i look atit. You know i help them help their employees, man. I know that you do aswell. Does she ask you if you're a nuper driver now sa i'm lucky she's, nineteen? So,but i know yours is little, so i'm sure they have. They may have asked thatquestion yeah, my son and my daughter. They come to the training center. Theyjust see it as a jungle gym. You know it's. My older daughter, she's she's inher late ties and she doesn't want to have anything to do with this industry,but she helps out when she can it's not for everybody and it's, but it'sdefinitely a growing industry. This is you know, fifteen years ago, twentyyears ago, when i got into it, it was you know, you're the safety guy. Yougot to have thick skin because you're just going to be bombarded on job sitesand especially in construction at s, it was a tough role were now it's becomingmore technological, we're seeing more integration and engineering you know,and in different industries and again just more more degrees and schools thatare accepting it as a degree program. So i think it's going to be great yeahbefore we wrap things up, i kind of want to get an idea, i'm finding moreyounger people are starting to get into safety. Now, right, like you, said,there's, there's more colleges and schools that are offering degrees insafety. What i want to say words of wisdom or bits of advice, would youhave to someone up and coming in safety? Well, if you're going through a degreeprogram, i would say find amentor find find somebody that you can askquestions that will give you the time to answer the questions. You know yourdegree is one part of that you still have to get the job experience part andso the more you're able to work with a mentor or you're able to get into maybesome type of college program for a big organization or corporation to get thework. Experience just realize that the school portion is half of it. Now youhave to go and interpret all that information in the field with realpeople and so understand that and understand that, if you're, if you'rein it for it, the industry, it's a long hall, it's not a get rich. You knowquick type of industry, although some people make really good money doing it,but find somebody that you trust that you can ask questions and that theyhave the time to answer those questions that they will give you the time to dothat if you're, not in a degree program, you want to get into safety, find yourlocal college. Most community colleges now are offering some type ofoccupational safety program. There are tons of online programs that you can gothrough certificate programs as us. A great example of that you have the youknow, sso or c sho, certifications that you can get by taking a number ofclasses, which is recognized, and you know again, look for a mentor look forsomebody that you can ask questions to and then that they're willing to takethe time and answer those questions or spend time with you. It doesn't takelong if you want to get into this industry. I've had friends that i'vei've you know like hey man, get into the industry and five years later,they're like then god. I wish i'd done what you told me to do like five yearsago, but there's no time there's no better time than now right, like i saidbefore, if it's something that you want to do, you have to then take those babysteps to do it. You don't have to go and spend thousands of dollars in aschool, find somebodywho's willing to...

...talk to you and give you some time andask those questions, and they will help you up we're in the industry of helpingpeople. It should be very easy to find somebody to help you to get to the nextlevel or to help you give you a path to start in this industry and on yourcareer. Well, that is some really great sage advice from john my instructor, john. It'sreally been a pleasure having today. I hope that you know our folks listeningpicked up a couple tips and tricks, and you know that they impart some bit ofwisdom from what you had to say. I know i always enjoy speaking with you. It'salways fun, and hopefully we can have you on again. That's the safetymanagement show for today. I you thanks, join us again, be safe in need of a blue print for workplacesafety and compliance safety services. Company is north america's leadingprovider of safety, training and compliant solutions. We supply customsafety, manuels and policies and on sight and online training solutionsthat will enhance the safety of your workplace and our compliance serviceswill save you time and resources guaranteeing peace of mind witheighteen years in the industry we have a proven track record of helpingcustomers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customizesolutions that fit the unique needs of each business to learn more had tosafety services. Companyon thanks for listening to the safetymanagement, show to hear more stories from safety leaders subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us arating until next time stay safe,.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (10)