The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Shaming, Bullying, & Fatality: The Hard Moments in Safety

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’re in environmental health and safety, jump in with both feet. Do not stick your toe in the water. Do it with all your heart.

Why? It isn’t about you. It’s about the people you take care of.

Recently on The Safety Management show, Susan Spaulding, Sr. EHS/QC Ma nager at J. Benton Construction, LLC, shared the above advice, as well as how she faced some of the hardest challenges in safety management.

We also chatted about:

  • Her exciting current project in the U.S. Virgin Islands
  • Shaming, bullying, and a culture of respect
  • Safety is truly about saving lives

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts , Spotify, or wh erever you listen to podcasts.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Safety Management Show in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the Safety Management Show, for safety professional share engaging stories about their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learned along the way. Let's dig in. Thank you for joining the Safety Management Show. I'm your host, Mike Deane, senior safety advisor here Safety Services Company, and today we have a great guess. She is experienced and environmental health and safety management, quality control, quality assurance, Master of science and safety management. She also has a bachelor of science and organizational leadership and supervision. More than twenty years of experience in the safety field. Right now she's working on a great project. She is a senior EHS QC manager at Jay bitten construction, Jo's and spot and everybody now worried you today. I'm right. I'm good. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. It's been a couple weeks since we spoke. Are you've been staying busy? Of course, always right. Listen, out here in Arizona it's about one setting team a day. Oh my goodness, yeah, we're cooking tell every eighty six here. You just made me jealous. Who's in a tell us a little bit about yourself. What brought you into the safety field manufacturing for quite some time and I worked in maintenance, planning and scheduling. Part of my responsibilities during the duration of my employment with this company was environmental, health and safety. That's it wasn't something that I went into the job with. It was just like rest upon me. So I took it grand with it, learned as much as I could. Got Laid off, downsized. Had A friend call me, he owns a consulting company, and said, Hey, I got a little project by your house. You want to go do this? Why? You find something else? There's just a short term construction project at a little manufacturing plant. I said I'm sure and went into construction. One Thousand Nine hundred and twenty six and I've never looked back. Nice. Nice, now let me yes, it is going back to when your school, did you ever see yourself being a safety or what did you look at see yourself becoming? So I'm an organizer and a planner, so that I just see myself doing the mainance, planning and scheduling. I enjoy learning new software program so I done a lot of that development, program development, a lot of self education actually, and I just seen myselfgoing you know in that direction. Never was safety even a thought. He tell us a little bit about the project. You ought to work in one now and the great location your ad so I st John US Virgin Islands in two thousand and seventeen. Irma and Maria hit here within two weeks of each other and devastated this wonderful island...

...of about four thousand. The National Park Service. About two thirds of this island belongs to the National Park Service and they supply their employees with housing. Three of the houses are what they call mid century continental. They are on the national historic register and the homes were damaged different one of the houses was not livable after the hurricane. The other two or livable, but they had to do work just to bring them up to a level that they could be lived in until they went through the process of getting money. The Fun is that you are trying to preserve the threads right the fabric of these homes. They're s they're gorgeous, their beautiful homes. My favorite as lime house. It's right on Solomnon beach. The House was built out of stone from the island. So it's trying to preserve the fabric of the homes Nope, bring them back to some semblance of their original S. beaunique. So I'm the HS manager and the QC manager on this project. This is not a mega project. This is a detailed project. So when you have to go out and find a craftsperson to Redo some old iron gates to put back up, it's just a lot of fun. It's very informational. I have spent a past couple of days with the park archeologists seeing all the original drawings and renderings from architects with these houses. Night Nice. Yeah, with that being said, can walk us through what a typical work day looks like for you? What would be a typical day would be everybody comes over on the ferry, and not me. I live here, but everybody else comes on the ferry, but we have a meeting in the morning. They go to the jobs. This is house remodeling, but the care that you have to take is having a lot of conversations. It depends on where we're at in the day. So in the Montague House there are some s metal close hampers that were constructed into the walls in the bathroom and they're being preserved. They're part of the original fabric. At the home. So they have to demo a wall on the opposite side of one of the close hampers. So it's guys, just make sure you don't demo the close hamper. So every day it's really just going out and looking at what's going on and making sure that we preserve what we were supposed to, what we need to, and making sure that everybody's working safe, taking care of themselves and taking care of the homes. There's no propical day. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. For my listeners that don't know, in the version islands is, are they...

...regulated by Osha or is there any other entities? Yes, they are regulated by Ocean. This is a US territory, so all of the wonderful federal and cities that you deal with the mainland we also deal with your yeah, I would imagine. Is there any heavy presence of any ocean inspectors out there, or any at all, any offices? or it's funny because the region is New York now, in terms of safety, what is the frequently he'll belief that you passionately disagree with safeties. Everyone's responsibility only if they know what is expected of you've got to tell them. You don't know what you don't know and everybody says safeties is their responsibility. You've gone on a job side. You're responsible for safety. Did you tell them? Can't make them responsible if you didn't educate them on what they're being responsible for? Me and everybody's what's some of the steps that you take as far as your programs procedures? How do you educate with guys up under you? So today is a good example. For today I was at the Callahan House and they're building a brand new master bedroom and deck has a fabulous view over Sentnamon Bay. I'm so jealous. So you know the guys are building a debt right. It's a deck on a house. You don't really think much about that. I was there today and I'm walked out on the den and the first thing I realized was we have more than a six foot drop off from the edge of the deck. I was like, Hey, guys, bill a deck and we've got eight foot. We gotta put on a card raable here and they I'll just look at me. So it's really just educate. I explain to him why. I said, Hey, get out your measuring stick, let's measure this let's see how far down this actually is. We measured it and it was and they're like, oh, yeah, it's right, we do. It's just something they didn't think about. It's a deck. It's not like working on a roof. You just have to educate. Yeah, I see things from a different point of view and this make go along a line with that and educating and building a rapport with your team. You had mentioned squinch your popsicle parties. Okay, you kind of go over that with is what is a squincher popsicle party? So on a mega project I was on, we had squencher popsicle parties. been the summer and the heat. We had several chest freezers and we would buy squinter POPs and freeze and every day two, two hundred and thirty heat of the after me, everybody would roll up and we would get coolers and we would load up the coolers and go out and deliver popsicles back to one guy said to me that we needed to make fun so we could pay the CALYPSO music up the ice creaming. So it gave us the opportunity and there were rules for the SQUINTER party. You could not come and just get squinter POPs and take them to your company. People...

...know if you were delivering squinter POPs, you have taken to everybody with a twenty four hundred person jobs like that's hard to do. So we had parties are bid roll up in their buggies, would grab the cooler, film up and go. And it wasn't just safety people, it was superintendents and project manager. We even had client personnel who would do it with us. It was a lot of fun and we would go out and give the guys popsicles and the gals and everybody working and it gave us an opportunity to say, okay, take ten have a popsicle cool off and how's your day going? Was Everything okay? Gave opportunity to chat and you'd be amazing things you could learn just giving somebody spun Choi and mean it was always a lot of fun. We gave away a little popsicles, but I learned a lot. I learned about struggles people were having. We would go out red vest for people that have been there less than thirty day. Age You have conversation. So we had trailer bathrooms. Are Condition trailer bathrooms? Do you know where the rest rooms are? Do you know where your break area is? Do you know where your master point is? All of these questions to ask questions. So guess there are no question it sounds like a great idea. I'm putting me in here at my job to see if we can get a squinch your popsical party going on here in Arizona, because we definitely needed to you. Now, in terms of safety, in your opinion, what is something that everyone should stop doing when it comes to safety? Shaming people, Chin Change people, you don't know. That's what talking to them get you. You and I talked about this. There's nothing worse than going somewhere on a job site seeing something. Somebody's out wearing their gloves and have their glasses on something, something's Amiss, and you stop to have a conversation with them and the next thing, superintendent, our foremans rolling up, going mark and and carrying on, and then they want to yell and Holler at the person that was not given the proper tool or the proper pep oh, yeah, by you, the superintendent, to begin with. But shaming people. Want to shame the person I'm talking to, wait till I'm done with you. Yeah, that kind of going into my next question. You talked about saying at people. I would imagine being a woman in this safety industry dealing with a bunch of coushrush of guys. Are Any difficulties in that or how was that being I have had a lot of struggles, but I've had a lot of good experiences. It is hard people, when you get on a job site, unless they've been around you for a long time, have no idea who you are what you know. So, being a woman in the industry, you have to earn the respect of male counterparts. I don't have an issue with...

...that. You, as a male, will have to earn my respect. Just to say I've been doing this for a long time and I don't let anybody's disrespect bother me anymore. I know what I know and I'm pretty proud of my education in my experience and I'm not going to let somebody take that away from me just because they don't know me or I'm a woman and they don't want to work. I'm probably your best ally. Have you ever experienced any situations so where you feel somebody may have been talking down to you or not giving you a certain amount of respect? I was on a project. We had a pipeline expansion project. Has Been some years ago. Call Your built Tennessee, and I worked on the owner side and first time we'd ever use this contractor and went to the kickoff meeting and I went up to superintendent. I stuck my hand out and I said Hi, my name is susans Balding's good to me, hate you, and he looked at me. He said where's your point? At hard hat I said, don't make me gin up them out. He did, unfortunately, but he didn't last long on that project. I don't let it bother me. You can't make me cry. I probably made superintendence cry. I'm here to do a job, just like you. I get a paycheck just like you. So let's work together or not. But the not is not going to be easy. Any women, and I'll talk it to with a lot of women in the safety feel kind of situation like yours, a kind of get thrown into it. Any women that are in the safety feel starting off, any Biss of advice you could pass along. Proud of who you are and what you don't let anybody discourage you and if it's your passion and it's really why you want to do, then do it. Do what you want to do right on. If environmental health and safety is it, then be the best that you can pay in the safety feel you've been doing this for a long time. Is there something that everybody is trying to do that you may be discovered a better method for you? As a safety manager, might know exactly what I mean when I say you get frustrated. We are a brotherhood and a sisterhood and we have to help each other out, and I have found that listening to my fellows, safety people, and they're restorations, because I've been through most of them. We have to help each other out and I found on one of my projects that some of the safety managers that were struggling really just needed somebody to talk to and when they figured out they could come in my office and shut the door to feel a lot better, they, you know, thank me. They always knew they could talk to me, call me, text me. So we got to be there for each other, sounding boards, we got empower safety managers stand arm in arm. If that's about it. What it takes. Absolutely, and I agree with your orderly and speaking about...

...being a brotherhood and sisterhood. What's you're a prosed networking and the safety feel and reaching out to other safety professionals. I have hundreds of safety partners, friends, allies. You got to be there, you got to reach out. I see things that people do, that can get on social media and see things, some things people have done or put out my oh that's good idea, and then you reach out you think, oh, I'd like to learn more about that. I keep an open mind and do a lot of reading, share my thoughts and ideas and look at what others have. There been any failures that you've experienced that you think people can't be headed for in terms of safety? We are losing an experienced workforce, dedicated. My Jin ration is retiring and droves. We hold the tribal knowledge in the construction industry. Yeah, things get better, we get bim three hundred and sixty or lasers or whatever it is. We get better software, but they're not the ones who are actually hands on, out there putting things together and understand how it goes. The loss of an experience, of dedicated workforce is going to devastate this country probably in the next five years. Turnover is crazy. My magup project that I was on at peak of pacity. I have twenty four hundred people. I ran tenzero people almost through orientation. If the younger generation doesn't stick around and learn from us, who's going to carry on and build these things? Because buildings and robots don't run? That's a bad deal. Open I can't fix that. Work Ethic is developed in your life to tribal knowledge. I agree with you. We has has to be a way to be able to pass that down to the younger generation and even drawing an interest in a younger generation. I have a fourteen old sign. He doesn't want to be a construction worker, he doesn't want to be a truck drivery. They don't want to do that. They want to be on the Internet at Youtube and make videos. But it has to be a way to pass that tribal knowledge down. I agree with you a hundred percent. But being in construction and I can drive by hundreds of places and go, yeah, I remember when we built that. That's like a pride and they don't see men are okay you with some resources or tools that people may not be used it too as full as to help them along and implementing a safety program in your opinion, we preach about safety. Had this conversation earlier today actually. And I said, you know why? The safety is a cope of federal regulations. Right, and we go out and we preach about safety all the time. What's to say in your job description? What is it a part of your job? It wearing a pair of gloves or a pair of safety glasses or hard hat? Shouldn't be safe in your job description? That's what I...

...think we should do. We should put things in job descriptions when we hire people. Okay, you're going to wear gloves, you're going to wear cut level three when you do this, you're going to wear leather gloves when you're touching ragging, whatever the case. Maybe you need to make safety part of the job description, not oh you got to do this because, oh, she says so. No, she doesn't say so. Oh, she says you're your employer has to do a JSA, JPTP, whatever acronymic is you use. You have to go out and figure out what the hazards are. If you can't engineer amount, no administrative controls PP is the bottom of the barrel. But it shouldn't be safety says. It's just your job description. We need to make that a tool or a resort. I don't know. I don't know how you do that. It's in your job description put saying it's a speaking of job descriptions, do you have a team under you or you just solo? You writing this stuff up yourself? Are you get your on material? Let you go over. I just look at what we're doing. So what are we doing today? What are we doing tomorrow? What are we doing next week? I go out on the job site every day and I look at what we're doing. I have conversations. I have a great superintendent on this project. He's very involved in safety, what's going on, keeping the people safe, keeping them working. So what I draw from is what are we doing? Then I look at I don't take a piece of paper and read. I know from experience. I know from being on lots of jobs. I know what the requirements are. I know what they need to be doing. I just have a conversation. I have to read from something. The PORTA John Companies truck broke down, so corty John didn't get claimed on the day was supposed to, and there were some other that was like, you know what, guys, don't use it I'll come put a padlock on it, getting a truck and go the gas station. We're not using this. I went out. It was a couple days past and I'm like no, don't use it, get the Shrut go the gas station. I said, if these things are going on, you need to tell me so I can comment here. Of aadlock and cause my problem. My Project Manager Cardiac arrest because I'm locking out them Porta John and all the guys are leaving the job site to go to the bathroom. So his eight hours of work is now six. So what that does is that incentivizes him to call the Port Chop and clean. It's just a conversation, I told him. I said don't use it, call me, I'll come put a padlock on it. It's just conversation. Talk to people like you want to be talked to. I'll talk to a lot of people. They're starting to use like analytics to formal late their safety program punching in the data and I kind...

...of leaves them in the direction of what to go with the target. Do you see yourself using it and technology? I do. We do observations. We can put in there. How many times we see somebody without glasses. We can do all of those things. We can look at lots of things, incidents, injuries, you can analyze and take this apart six ways to Sunday. We're human and we're going to do what we're going to do and if a guy just happens to go to break and not come back to work with the safety glasses and you see him without his classes, it's not really something that needs to be analyzed. Probably not. You just went to break, got his glasses. Human and so there are people out there who would hesitate a minute to write that observation up. Anyone where in his class did you put that in that observations because you just got up from breaking Strutt put them back on. It would like use out one and around doing work or anything. There are parts of that will be helpful and useful. Bleeding and lagging. Let's talk about one of the biggest things, one of the biggest struggles that we have is and injuries. Right and injuries. Looking at the data from that. What are they? How did they happen? What can we do? Did we not have the right gloves? That we not have the right tool? Do we not have the right body positioning to do the word, which made us hold something weird and cut it and cut herself. Yeah, things like that. That's helpful. I do see that. I wanted to ask just during the course of your career, any work related injuries that you've seen or were over a particular job? Psych you. I like to kind of have my guests tell a story. Be as graphic as you want. I have a lot of listeners that don't believe in Oh shit, Think, oh, she doesn't exist, believe it or not. So can you speak to maybe a specific injury too? It was pretty bad. Or Crane Mat. Okay, so on a pipeline project contractor was moving crane mat from one location that was completed. This is hundred mile long pipeline. This is huge. So the contractor is taking crane mat up from location a moving him to location be and part of the requirements were hazardous works. So you bear Kade off certain areas, even when you're doing a pick right, because you don't want people walk in there. Needs the crane underneath that suspended load create a hazards work. The only people that need to be in that area are the people actually working doing the work. You don't want to buy inderpendent load. There's a truck driver. They were loading the crane mats on his...

...flatbed, on his lowboy, getting him out, moving him to the next location and he had been told three times. He went in, got out his truck went truck driver got to check on his load. No, you can check the load when they're done loading. If it's not right, will fix it, but in the process you're not getting out your truck and going in that area. The guy had to be ran out of the area three times. Fourth time they dropped crane mat on it smashed. When companies right policy? First of all, the housards work area. Not supposed to be in there. You know no business being in there. Here's my heartburn with all that. The company's policy was three strikes you're out. So on that third time, if he had been removed, he wouldn't have been killed. Companies, they write, they do hazard analysis, risk analysis, whatever acronymic as you use, but then they don't enforce smashed. Think about it. That's one of the big things that I see, and in even in a general industry. We write all these policies and procedures but we don't enforce them. We don't hold people accountable. It's it was up and it sounds like it. Well, you have a fatality like that, was the first thing that you have to get done. Secure in the area, keep people out. You don't know if anything else is going to happen. Now, granted their one another crane mat to drop, you got to secure the area. First thing we knew, the guy wasn't going to come out of their live, which you got to keep everybody else out. You got to start documenting, pictures, gathering people up, got to get statements. Urgency response. What is that? And that's getting your superintendent, your foreman and your project manager out there and crowning people who were there, to taking name, seeing witness getting witness statements, carrying the seeing, calling nine one, photographs, everything that goes with it. And when you have a fatality and I don't know, you got to call nine one, then you have to stop think about who's notifying the family, what's going on with that? Then you have the PTSD from the people who experience the event, and a lot of people don't think about that. And if that is a huge deal and people need to think about that, because I seen after the fact, like the next day how people reacted. They needed somebody to talk to. They needed not me, not a superintendent, they needed a professional to help them figure it out, and that's something that companies don't think about. When that happens, is there some type of level of blame that gets placed on the safety or who's in charge of safety? Some companies will try to blame safety. I'm...

...not having it. I am a subject, amount of expert and a resource. If you want me to direct the workfloors, I'll mean more than happy to direct your workforce. Got No problem with that. You're not blaming me for the shortcomings of your personnel. It's not going to happen. So I don't buy into that. If you don't give me the authority, it does happen and I will push back. I'll be like the truck as interesting here at always, and I can imagine that some companies doing that. So I got to blame somebody space. You're talking about a fatality is somebody has to be blamed for. It seems like what a lot of a situations. I was on the owner side of that, so it was not blaming Ye for me. I'm not responsible for the contractor in that. They all need to take a start back and go. Here's the big question for you, might dean, and all your listeners. The Guy who has three strikes, you're out. WHO'RE SUPPOSED TO KICK HIM OUT? Who's going to remove me, because it ain't going to be environment and say you. Who is accountable to remove give me a writing. That's the big question. And then that is, ultimately, the guy that's driving the truck is accountable, because he knew was supposed to be accountability. WHO's accountable? I agree with you a hundred percent on that. Switch gears just a little bit. Being it, I have to add, just with you. Know, we with Covid and everything. First of all, is it a lot of cold the cases out there or Huh? No, you can't even get in here without a negative coding test, know, and you can't go anywhere without wearing a mask. I can go outside and walk around on the public streets without a mask, but you can't go in a bar or store or restaurant or grocery anything without a mask on because they will just spend you right around saying you write on, back out on. A lot of that has to do with the health department. They're very strict here and they will go out and do inspections and if, if you're in a restaurant and you're a walking around you don't have a mask on, they'll shut the restaurant down. Yeah, so I think I read today got the US Virgin Islands have their thirty fatality and all thirty. Any are obviously with the social distancing in the mass regulations. Has It affected the way you do your work and since we've been dealing with this code as iffake anything you want to safety side? Are you taking extra measures or we do? We just make sure that people feel okay when they come to work, make sure they wear their masks, make sure they have the ability to wash their hands. So you do just take the few extra steps. It's...

...important that you make sure by feeling okay. Feeling okay today. How you doing today? And doesn't even have to be cold relationship. You just go out on the job site and say hey, how you doing today? Most people don't think that you're you're asking. They'll be like, really knows, where's the Hogan? Wait just for I take care of ourselves and each you are you are working on a deadline out there. How long you going to be out there in a beautiful version islands. So this project was two years and more six months into it. Yeah, these people want to get back in their house as everything want scheduled. The whole everything on schedule so far. Now there's a little bit of hold up, but that's material related and that's one because of historic I had to find have been one thousand nine hundred and sixty one American standard bathtub. I'm going to tell you this story to shoot. The Bathtub is coral and pink. Okay, one thousand nine hundred and sixty one was a last year. That American standard made that color. How do I know that? Because I have to recoat about bit one of the House. So you run into some little things that now you got to find a supplier that can produce the coral and pink color of the Bathtub. Some silly little things like that. But then there's that's one of those threads right. That's one of the part of the fabric of that home. And then there's been some delays due to wood to buy fours and a lot of Cyprus tongue and groove of went into these houses the cause. That's what those ceilings are or just originally tongue and groove Cyprus. That's a very specialize, I'm pretty sure if you have to stay a little longer to two years, and maybe you and your husband wouldn't mine at all. Got a question off the subject. If you could have any superpower in the world, what would it be? Wow, I would want to be wonderable. Nice, I would want that. She and then hey have a superintendent super power, I think. I don't know. I want to say the ability to read mind and think about how some people think about me and then I get mad. But like me, I don't know. I look, we're all here. Tolim for me and is taking care of my people every day. I'm making sure in this one. I tell them, you don't have your eyes, you can't work, if you don't have your hands, you can't work. We come to work every day to take care of ourselves and our families and I'm here, I'm doing this job because you got to come to work,...

...make paycheck and go home and I just try to keep you on that path. Nice. I like to what's a super power that would fit with that? But I like that answer. Those Susan and that just speaks to you. Could sit anything are be invisible, flying bullet proof, but that just speaks to who you are. That answer you gave. It was different perspective and I appreciate that answer if we're going to get ready to wrap it up soon here, but if you can go back until the younger Susan, it just got thrown into the safety position. If you can give young Susan any bit of advice going through the safety journey, what would you tell her to what's right. Don't let anybody influence you just because somebody doesn't want to wear their fall protection or somebody thinks that they can work in an excavation when they really can't. Don't back down. Do what you know you got to do what's right and don't let anybody influent you, especially for it's the right thing. And I'm beginning of my career. I got bullied, not now, that ended about twenty years ago. And Susan, it was definitely a pleasure speaking to you and getting your perspective and I'm going to tell you initially, like I told you, we first of all, I was a little intimidated in interviewing. I seen your accolades education and I said, man, it was intimidating, but we have a great personality and I enjoyed it and gave me a couple ideas I'm going to take back to my boss, especially with the squincher popsicle party. Real quick, tell me about stretching fledge before we go stretching flax. So we do stretching flax in the morning. It's a blast. Right. So every morning we pick somebody new to do and and what's funny is the young guys will lead it when they want to do some crazy stuff, and then the old guys get up there and they're not so crazy and the young guys want to have to on. It's hilarious. We have a blast doing it. They're like, oh, Whoa, we could do better that. It's not your daily none of us are getting any younger. Take care of yourself, take care of your body, get your stuff right to go to work. Don't get hurt. Yeah, yeah, let's go. Those skeletal is huge. And the after it is interview, I'm going to do a little stretching and flexing and I'm going to stretch and flex my way walking from the building to my car so I can go home. So that'll be my stretch and flex put a day. Somebody told me it's Friday and they try to get me to have a beer after work and I'm like, Oh, I got to go do a podcast, and there were Oh yeah, have here right, wait till that would be an interesting interview. Before we let you go, you gave us a lot of great information, great advice. Anything you want to share with the listeners or any but before you let us go, any party, no where'd you want to leave us with an environmental health and safety if you are in that, be in it. Do it. It's got jump in with both feet. You can't stick your towel in the water. And if you're going to do it, do it, but do it with your whole heart. It's not about you,...

...it's about people. You got to take care of Nice. I think my listeners would appreciate that. Folks of the words of wisdom from Susas Baldy. Thank you for joining us today again, Susan, thank you for your time. Stay safe, enjoy the beautiful weather out there in a version islands. So, my listeners, thank you for joining us a day until next time. My name is Mike Deane with the safety management show, and stay safe in need of a blueprint for workplace safety and compliance. Safety Services Company is North America's leading provider of Safety Training and compliant solutions. We supply custom safety manuals and policies and onsite and online training solutions that will enhance the safety of your workplace, and our compliance services will save you time and resources, guaranteeing peace of mind. With eighteen years in the industry, we have a proven track record of helping customers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customized solutions that fit the unique needs of each business. To learn more, head to safety services COMPANYCOM. Thanks for listening to the Safety Management Show. To hear more stories from safety leaders, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a rating. Until next time, stay safe.

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