The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 6 · 3 months ago

Shaming, Bullying, & Fatality: The Hard Moments in Safety

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’re in environmental health and safety, jump in with both feet. Do not stick your toe in the water. Do it with all your heart.

Why? It isn’t about you. It’s about the people you take care of.

Recently on The Safety Management show, Susan Spaulding, Sr. EHS/QC Ma nager at J. Benton Construction, LLC, shared the above advice, as well as how she faced some of the hardest challenges in safety management.

We also chatted about:

  • Her exciting current project in the U.S. Virgin Islands
  • Shaming, bullying, and a culture of respect
  • Safety is truly about saving lives

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts , Spotify, or wh erever you listen to podcasts.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Safety Management Show in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the SafetyManagement Show where safety professionals share engaging storiesabout their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learnedalong the way. Let's dig in thank you for joining a safety management, showI'm your whole mit den Senior Safety Advisor here Safety Services Companyand today we have a great guest. She is experienced in environmental health andsafety management, quality control, quality insurance, master science andsafety management. She also has a bachelor science and organizationalleadership and supervision. More than twenty years of experience in thesafety field right now, she's working on a great project. She is a seer eh S.Q c manager at j bitten, construction, who's, this paling everybody. Now whatare you today? I I'm Gi'm doing. Well, I'm doing well, it's been a coupleweeks since we spoke. Are you been staying busy? Of course, always right?Listen out here in Arizona, it's about one, seven, fifteen a day: Oh, mygoodness, yeah we're tooking about eighty six. Here you just made each other Susan, Oh tellus a little bit about yourself. What brought you into the safety field soworking manufacturing for quite some time, and I worked in maintenanceplanning and scheduling heart of my responsibilities during the duration ofmy employment with this company was Emmeran health and safety. That's itwasn't something that I went into the job with. It was just like thrust uponme, so I took it gram with it learned as much as I could got laid offdownsized had a friend call me. He was a consulting company and said: Hey. Igot a little project by your house. You want to go. Do this, why you findsomething else, there's just a short term because destruction project at alittle manufacturing plant, I said Oh sure, and went into construction, onethousand nine hundred and twenty six and I've never looked back Nice Nice!No, let me ask it is going back to when you're in school. Did you ever seeyourself being the safety o? When did you look at? I see yourself becomingI'm organizer in a planner so that I just see myself doing. The main isplanning and scheduling. I enjoy learning new software program, so I'vedone a lot of that development program, development, a lot of self educationactually- and I just seen myself going you know in that direction- never wassafety, even a thought. Can you tell us a little bit about the project you allare working on now and the great location, your ad, and so I'm Saint John US Virgin Islands intwo than and Seventeen Erma and Maria hit here within two weeks of each otherand demasted. This wonderful Ivan of...

...about four thousand the National ParkService about two thirds of this island belong to the National Park Service andthey supply their employees with housing. Three of the houses are what they callmid century Cotem they are on the national historic register and thehomes were damaged. Different one of the houses was not livable after theHerfora, the other two were livable, but they had to do work just to bringthem up to a level if they could be lived in until they went through theprocess of getting money. The Fun is that you are trying to preserve the threadsright. The fabric of these homes, there one Thousan S, they're gorgeous theirbeautiful homes. My favorite is line house. It's right on solemn beach. TheHouse was built out of stone from the island, so it's trying to preserve the fabricof the homes now bring them back to some semblance of their original onethousand s: u t the line, thns manager and the KUC manager on this project.This is not a mega project. This is a detailed project. So when youhave to go out and find a craft person to Redo some old iron gates to put back up, it's just a lot of fun.It's very informational. I have spent a past couple of days with the parkarchaeologist, seeing all the original drawings and renderings from architectswith these houses. No as most yeah. What that being says can walk usthrough with a typical work day, looks like for you. What would be a typicalday would be. Everybody comes over on the ferry, not me! I live here, buteverybody else comes on the ferry, but we have a meeting in the morning. They go to the jobs. This is houseremodeling, but the care that you have to take its having a lot ofconversations. It depends on where we're at in the day. So in the MontagueHouse there are some one thousand in E S, metal clothes, hammers that wereconstructed into the walls in the bathroom and they're being preserved.They are part of the original fabric of the home, so they have to demo a wall on theopposite side of one of the close hampers. So it's guys just make sure you know dem out theclothes hamper so every day, it's really just going out and looking atwhat's going on and making sure that we preserve what we're supposed to what weneed to be making sure that everybody's working saves taking care of themselvesand taking care of the homes there's no typical day. Yeah. I hear you, I hearyou for my listeners that don't know in the version islands. Are theyregulated by Osha or is there any other...

...entities? Yes, they are regulated byOcean. This is a US territory, so all of the wonderful federal and to tease that you deal with on themain land we also deal with here. Yeah, I would imagine, is there any heavypresence of any ocean specters out there or any at all in the offices orit's funny, because the region is New York? No in terms of safety, what is afrequently hill belief that you passionately disagree with safety ever one's responsibility onlyif they know what is expected of them? You got to tell him, you don't knowwhat you don't know and everybody said safety is their responsibility of goneout of job site, but you're responsible for safety. Did you tell him can't makehim responsible if you didn't educate them or what they're being responsiblefor being everybody's? What some of the steps that you take as far as yourprograms procedures? How do you educate what guys of under you to day was agood example for today was at the Callihan House and they're building a brand new masterbedroom deck because a fabulist you over Cinnamon Bay, I'm so jealous. Soyou know the guys are building a debt right, it's a deck on a house. Youdon't really think much about that, but I was there today and I'm walked downon the day. The first thing I realized was: we have more than six of my dropoff from the edge of the deck and I was like: Hey guys, fell a deck and we'vegot a foot. We got a a car trable here and they all just looked at r. So it'sreally just educating. I explain to him why I said he get at your majoring.Stick, let's measure this. Let's see how far down this actually is. Wematured it than it was and they're like. Oh yeah is your right. We do justsomething they didn't think about is a deck. It's not like working on a roof.You just have to educate them. I see things from a different point ofview and this may go along in line with that and educating and building areport with your team. You have mentioned in Squinch your popsicleparties. Can you kind of get a go over that with this? What is a squinch er,popsicle party, so on a mega project I was on. We had wideopen parties in the summerin the heat we had several chess freezers and we would buy quintetts andfreeze and every day two hure and thirty feetin the afternoon. Everybody would roll up we and we would get coolers and wewould load up the coolers and go out and deliver popsicles fact. One Guysaid to me that we needed a magazine, so we get paid. The collops O music isup the ice crazy. So it gave us the opportunity and therewere rules for this winter party. You could not come and just get...

...squinches and take them to your company.People know if you were delivering squinter hops. You Gan take him toeverybody with a twenty four hundred person job site. That's hard to do so.We had parties, everybody roll up in their buggies, we grab a cooler, fillthem up and go, and it wasn't just safety people. Itwas superintendence and project manager. We even had client personnel who woulddo it with us? It was a lot of fun and we would go out and give guys popsiclesand the gals and everybody working, and it gave us an opportunity to say: okay,take ten, have a popsicle cool off and how's your day going. Does everythingokay gave opportunity to chat and you'd be amazed at the things you couldlearn just giving somebody a like your home, and it was always a lotof fun. We gave away a lot of popsicles, but I learned a lot I learned aboutstrugglespeople were having they would go out. Red Vest were people that havebeen there less than thirty days. You have a conversation, so we had atrailer matrons their conviction, trailer bates. Do you know where therestrooms are? Do you know where your break area is? Do you know where yourmaster point is all of these questions just ask questions so guess there noquestion. This sounds like a great idea, I'm putting in a here on my job to seeif we can get a squincher popsicle party going on out here in Arizona,because we definitely need it to you now in terms of safety. In your opinion,what is something that everyone should stop doing when it comes to safety, Shaming People Chin chain pop, you know, know that's what talking tothem get you you, and I talked about this- There's nothing worse than going somewhere on a job side, seeingsomething somebody's not wearing their gloves. I don't have the glasses onsomething some things amiss and you stop to have a conversationwith them and the next thing, superintendent or Formans, wrong,apgomer and I carrying on and then they want to yell and Holler at the personthat was not given the proper tool or the proper p P. Oh yeah, my! U Thesuperintendent to begin with, but chaining people want to shame theperson. I'm talking to wait till I'm done with I yeah that kind of wonted. To my nextquestion. You talked about shameing people, I would imagine, being a womanin the safety industry dela with a bunch of Castres guys are readydifficulties in that or how was that being? I have had a lot of struggles,but I've had a lot of good experiences. It is hard people when you get out onjob site unless they've been around you for a long time, have no idea who youare or what you know so being a woman in the industry, you have to earn therespect of mail counterparts. I don't...

...have any issue with that. You as a malewill have to earn my respect. Just the same. I've been doing this for a longtime and I don't let anybody's disrespect bother me any more. I knowwhat I know and I'm pretty proud of my education and my experience and I'm notgoing to. Let somebody take that away from me just because they don't know meor I'm a woman, and they don't want to work. I'm probably your best outliehave you ever experienced any situations so where you feel somebodymay have been talking down to you or not giving you a certain amount ofrespect. I was on a project we had a pipelineexpansion project has been some years ago. Call Your built Tennessee and I worked on the owner's side andfirst time, we'd ever use this contractor and went to the Kakos meeting and Iwent up to superintendent. I stuck my hand out, and I said Hi my name isSusan Balding s good, to meet you and he left me and he said where shepointed hard him I said: Don't make me get a out. He did unfortunately, but he didn'tlast long on that project. I don't let it bother me. You can't make me cry. Iprobably mate superintendence cry, I'm here to do a job. Just like you. I geta pay check, just like you, so let's work together or not, but the knot isnot going to be no a many women and I talked to a lot of women in the safetyfield, kind of a situation like yours, a kind of get thrown into it. Any womenthat are in the safety field, starting off any bits of advice you could passalong crowd of who you are and what you don't. Let anybody discourage you andif it's your passion and it's really what you want to do, then do it do whatyou want to do right on if environmental, health and safety is itthen be the best that you can pay in the safety field. You've been doingthis for a long time. Is there something that everybody is trying todo that? You may be discovered a better method for you, as a safety manager, might knowexactly what I mean when I say you get frustrated. We are a brotherhood and a sisterhoodand we have to help each other out, and I have found that listening to my fellow safety peopleand their frustrations has I've been through most of them. We have to help each other ound, and Ifound on one of my projects that some of the safety managers that werestruggling really just needed somebody to talk to and when they figured outthey could come in my office and shut the door to feel a lot better. They youknow thank me. They always knew they could talk to me. Call me text me, sowe got to be there for each other sounding boards. We got to empower oursafety managers stand arm in arm. If that's about it, what it takesabsolutely- and I agree with you old,...

...orderly and speaking about being abrotherhood and sister, a Bush, your approach to networking on the safetyfield and reaching out to other safety profession. I have hundreds of safetypartners, friends, allies, you got to be there, you got to reach out. I seethings that people do I get on social media and see things some things peopleare done are put out, my God, that's a good idea and then you reach out. YouThink, oh I'd like to learn more about that. I keep an open mind and do a lot of reading, share my thoughtsand ideas and to what others have there been any fillure that you'veexperienced that you think people can be headed for in terms of safety. We are losing an experienced workforcededicated my generation is retiring and droves. We hold the tribal knowledge in the construction industry. Yes,things get better. We get BIM Three D, sixty or lasers or whatever it is. Weget better software, but they're, not the ones who are actually hands on outthere. Putting things together and understand how it goes. The loss of anexperience of dedicated workforce is going to devastate this country,probably in the next five years. Turnover is crazy. My Mega Project thatI was on at p capacity. I have twenty four hundred people. I ran ten thousandpeople almost through orientation. If the younger generation doesn't stickaround and learn from us who's going to carry on and build these things becausebuildings and relates, don't run a that's a bad deal and I can't fix thatwork ethic is developed in your lives or tribal knowledge. I agree with you.We, as has to be a way to be able to pass that down to the youngergeneration and even drawing the interest in a younger generation. Ihave a fourteen year old son. He doesn't want to be a constructionworker. He doesn't want to be a truck driver. They don't want to do that.They want to be on the Internet of Youtube and make videos, but it has tobe a way to pass that tribal knowledge down. I agree with you a hundredpercent I being in construction, and I can drive by hundreds of places and goyeah. I remember when we built that, but it's like a bride and they don't see man or ka you withsome resources or tools that people may not be used in to hisfullness to help them along and implementing the safety program. Inyour opinion, we preach about safety. Had thisconversation earlier today. Actually- and I said you know why the safety is acop of federal regulations right and we go out and we preach about safety allthe time. What to say in your job description. What is it a part of your job, itwearing a pair of gloves or a pair of safety, glasses or hard hat shouldn't?Be Safety in your job description?...

That's what I think we should do. Weshould put things in job descriptions when we hire people- okay, you're,going to wear, gloves you're going to wear a cut level three. When you dothis you're going to wear leather gloves when you're touching ragging,whatever the case may be, you need to make safety part of the job description.Not Oh, you got to do this because o she says so no was she doesn't say soso she said you're your employer has to do a Jasa j, p TPA, whateveracronym it is you use, you have to go out and figure out what the hazards are. If youcan't engineer them out, no administrative controls. Pep is thebottom of the barrel, but it shouldn't be safety, says it's just your jobdescription. We need to make that a tool or resort. I don't know. I don'tknow how you do that it's in your job, description, quit saying it's speakingof job descriptions. Do you have a team under you or you just a solo, yourwriting this stuff up yourself. Are you in your mater? I just look at what we're doing so.What are we doing today? What are we doing tomorrow? What are we doing nextweek? I go out on the job site every day and I look at what we're doing. Ihave conversations. I have a great superintendent on this project, he'svery involved in safety. What's going on keeping the people safe, keepingthem working. So what I draw from is what are we doing and then I look at. Idon't take a piece of paper and leak. I know from experience, I know frombeing on lots of jobs. I know what the requirements are. I know what they needto be doing. I just have a conversation, don't have to be from something the PORdid, John Company's track wrote down, so portion didn't get e cleaned on thedat was supposed to, and there were some other that was like you know whatguys don't use it I'll kind of put a padlock on it, get in a trap and go tothe gas station we're not using this. I went out. It was a couple days past andI'm like no don't use it get the truck, know the gas station. I said if thesethings are going on. You need to tell me so I can come a here a bit of a moomentthank as my problem. My Project Manager Cardiacs, because I'm locking out thatPorte John and all the guys are leaving the job site to go to the bathroom. Sohis eight hours of work is now six. So whatthat does? Is that incentivize him to call the PO COOING'S JUST Aconversation? I told him, I said, don't use it call me I'll come put a fan ofon me. It's just conversation. Talk to peoplelike you want to be talked to, like I talk to a lot of people but they're,starting to use like analytics to...

...formulate their safety program punchingin the data and that kind of leaves him in the direction of what to go with thetarget. Do you see yourself using it a technology? I do we do observations wecan put in there how many times we see somebody without glasses. We can do allof those things. We can look at lots of things, incidents, injuries, you cananalyze and take this apart. Six ways Sunday we're human and we're going to do what we're goingto do and if a guy just happens to go to break and not come back to work withthe safety glasses, and you see him with those classes. Is that reallysomething that needs to be analyzed? Probably not you just went to Mr gothis blast, be human, and so there are people out there who would hesitate aminute to write that observation up atone wearing is last. Did you put that in that off race? Justbecause you just got up from breaking step for the back on it when, like youwas out wandering around to work or anything there are parts of that will be helpfuland useful, bleeding and Ligny? Let's talk about one of the biggest things,one of the biggest struggles that we have is and injuries right and injures. Looking at the data fromthat, what are they? How did they happen? What can we do? Do we not havethe right gloves? Do we not have the right tool? Did we not have the rightbody positioning to do the work which made us hold something weird and cut itand cut herself yeah things like that? That's helpful. I do see that I want ajust during the course of your career. Any work related injuries that you'veseen or were over a particular job siccan. You I like to kind of have myguest tell a story be as graphic as you want. I have a lot of chisties thatdon't believe in o should think Osha doesn't exist, believe it or not. Socan't you speak to maybe a specific injury that that was pretty bad and ran. Okay, so on a pipeline project contractor was moving crane mat from one location thatwas completed, and this is a hundred mile long pipeline. This is huge, so the contractor is tanging. Crane,Ratu for location, a Movin, an vil location B and part of the requirementswere hazards work Tom. So you barricade off certain areas, even when you're doing apick right, because you don't want people walking there leading the craneunderneath a suspended load create hazards for the only people that needto be in that area. Are The people actually working doing the work? Youdon't want to a my andres, a bend in loan. There's a truck driver. They wereloading the crane mats on his flat bed...

...on his little boy, getting him out,moving him to the next location and he had been told three times he went ingot out his track went and truck over got a check on his load. No, you can check the loan with they'redone loading if it's not right will fix it, but in the process you're notgetting out your track and going in the area the guy had to be ran out of the areathree times. Fourth TIME THEY DROPPED CRANE MON onmashed. When companies write policy. First of all the hazards work area notsupposed to be in there. You know no Business Bang in there. Here's my heartburn with all that the company's policy was three strikes. Ere Out so on that,third time, if he had been removed, he wouldn't have been killed companies they write, they do hazardanalysis, risk analysis, whatever acronym it is you uses, but then theydon't enforce smash. Think about it and that's one of thebig things that I see it and in even in general industry. We write allthese policies and procedures, but we don't enforce them. We don't Plodpeople at o animal at a it was o and it sounds like it. Well, you have afatality like that, which the first thing that you have to get done is purity area. Keep people out, you don't know. If anything else isgoing to happen now, granted there wasn't another crane mat to drop. yougo secure the area first thing we knew the guy wasn't going to come out oftheir live, but you got to keep everybody else out. You guys startdocumenting pictures gathering people at got to get statements, emergencyresponse. What is that and that's getting your superintendent, yourforeman and your project manager out there and crawling people who werethere taking names? Singer the witness getting witness statements carrying the stane call in nine hundredand one photograph US everything that goes with it and when you have afatality- and I don't know you got to call nine hundred and one, then youhave to stop an think about WHO's. You notifying the family. What's going onwith that, then you have the PTSD from the people who experienced the eventand a lot of people. Don't think about that, and if that is a huge deal, andpeople need to think about that, because I seen after the fact like thenext day how people reacted they needed somebody to talk to they needed not mean not asuperintendent, they needed a professional to help them figure it out and that's something thatcompanies don't think about. When that happens. Is there some type of level of blame that gets placed on the safety ofWHO's in charge of safety? Some...

...companies will try to blame safety, theI'm not having it. I am a subject matter, expert and a resource. If you want me to direct the workforceI'll be more happy to direct your workforce, got no problem with that.You're, not blaming me for the shortcomings, yourpersonality's not going to happen, so I don't buy into that. If you don't give me the Autori, it does happen and I will push backI'll be like the track. That's interesting here. I always- andI can imagine that some companies doing that, so you got to blame somebody'sbasely talking about a fatality, as somebody has to be blamed for it. Itseems like what a lot of situations I was on the owner side of that, so itwas not what they mean for me, I'm not responsible for the contractor, in thatthey all need to take a start back and go. Here's the big question for you,mighten and all your listeners, the guy who was three strikes, you're out who'ssupposed to kick him out: Who's, gonna, removing because it ain't going to beenvironment. An sae do t who is accountable to remove give a writing. That's the big question, and then that is ultimately the guythat's driving the track is accountable because he now was best beaccountability, who's accountable. I agree with you a hundred percent onthat switch gears just a little bit being to have to add. Just with youknow we wi coved and everything. First of all, is there a lot of colics es outthere? A No you can't even get in here without anegative colias? No, and you can't go anywhere without wearing a mask. I cango outside and walk around the Public Street without a mask, but you can't goin a bar or a store or a restaurant or grocery or anything without a mason,because they will just spend you right around. Then you right on back out and a lot of that has to do with thehealth department they're very strict here, and they will go out and doinspections and if, if you're in a restaurant you're up walking around,you don't have a mask on they'll shut the restaurant down yeah. So I think I read today that theUS Virgin Islands had their thirtieth fatality in all thirty in a year. Obviously, with the socialdistancing in the mass regulations. Has It affected the way you do your workand since we've been dealing with this cove as if Pickanin on the safety sideor you taking extra measures or we do, we just make sure that peoplefeel okay when they come to work, make sure they wear their masks, make surethey have the Abilitye to wash their...

...hands. So you do just take the fewextra steps. It's important that you make sure by feeling, okay feeling,okay, today, how are you doing today? I don't even have to be, to wit, reLadyship, you just go out on job site and say hey: How are you doing today?Most people, don't think that you can you ask E be like: Where is the West? Try Take Care of ourselves andyou are. You are working on a deadline out there, how long you going to be outthere in a beautiful version island. So this project was two years and more sixmonths, an to it yeah. These people want to get back intheir house as everything on schedule, no hole or everything on schedule. Sofar now there's a little bit of hold up, but that's material related and that'sone because of historic. I had to front a in one thousand nine hundred andsixty one American Standard Baum, I'm going to tell you this story to you.The Bath Tub is Corlin Pink, okay, one thousand nine hundred and sixty one wasthe last year the American standard made that color. How do I know that?Because I have to Recoton a bit one of the House, so you run into some littlethings that now you got to find in a supplier that can produce the coral andpink color of the BATTU. Some silly little things like that, but thenthere's thuch one of those threads right, that's one of part of the fabricof that home and then there's been some delays due to wood to by fours and alot of Cypres tongue and groove or went into these houses because that's whatthe sea lines are or just re originally tongue and groove Cypress, that's veryspecialized, I'm pretty sure if you had to stay a little longer than two years.So maybe you and your husband wouldn't mind at all got a question off thesubject. If you could have any super power in the world, what would it be wow? I would want to be wonderful, Nice. I would like that Shin, the CatSuperintendent Super Power. I think I don't know I want to say the ability toread mind. I think some people think about me that Iget mad in like me. I don't know I but we're all here to limb. For me it is taking care of my peopleevery day, I'm making sure and that's what I tellhim. You don't have your eyes. You can'twork. If you don't have your hands, you can'twork. We come to work every day to take careof ourselves and our families, and I'm here I'm doing this job because you gotto come to work, make a paycheck and go,...

...and I just try to keep you on that pay.My S I like T, what's a super power that would fit with that, but I, likethe answer, those Susan and that just speaks to you- can sit anything a be invisible flying bullet proof. But that's jus speech to we are to answer you gave.It was different perspective and I appreciate that answer. If we're goingto get ready to wrap it up soon here, but if you can go back until theyounger Susan, it just got thrown into the safety position. If you can giveyoung sous and any bit of advice going through the safety journey, what wouldyou tell her do what's right? Don't let anybody influence you just becausesomebody doesn't want to wear their fall protection or somebody thinks thatthey can work in an excavation when they really can't don't back down. Dowhat you know you got to do what's right and don't let anybody influenceyou, especially if it's the right on do one beginning of my career, I got Bolliand not now that ended about twenty years ago. I and Susan. It wasdefinitely a pleasure speaking to you and get your perspective and I'm goingto tell you initially. Like I told you when we first spoke, I was a littleintimidated and interview an I seen or your accles education and I said men.It was intimidating, but we have a great personality and I enjoyed it andgave me a couple ideas. I'm going to take back to my boss, especially withthe squincher popsicle party. Real quick, tell me about stretching fleshbefore we go stretching flats, so we do stretching flags in the morning at theblast right. So every morning we pick somebody new to do and- and what'sfunny is the young guys will lead it when they want to do some crazy stuffand then the old guys get up there and they're, not so crazy and the youngguys. When I have a lot miss hilarious, we have a blast doing it and they'relike Oh, oh, we could do better. That is not your day. Lady none of USARE getting any younger. Takecare of yourself. Take care. Your body get stuff read to go to work, they'llget hurt, yeah, yeah, Musculo skeleton is huge, and after this interview I'mgonna do a little stretch and inflection I'm on a stretch and flex myway walking from the building to my car. So I can go home. So that'll be mystretching flax for the day. Somebody told me it's Friday and theytried to get me to have a beer after work and I'm like. Oh, I got to go, doa podcast, he wait. Oh Yeah, a wait would be an interesting interviewbefore we let you go. You gave us a lot of great information, great advice,anything you want to share with the listeners or any, but before you let usgo any parting. The words you want to leave us with an environmental, healthand safety. If you are in that to be in it do it, but you got joe in with bothfeet. You can't stick your towel in the water and, if you're going to do it, doit, but do it with your whole art. So...

...how about you it's about the people yougot to take care of mice. I think my my listeners would appreciate that quotesthe words of wisdom from susans body. Thank you for join ustoday against Sus and thank you for your time. Stay safe, enjoy thatbeautiful weather out there in the version islands to my listeners. Thankyou for joining this today. Until next time, my name is Mike Dean with theSafety Management Show and stay safe in need of a blue print for workplacesafety and Compliance Safety Services. Company is North America's leadingprovider of safety, training and compliant solutions. We supply customsafety, manials and policies and on sight and online training solutionsthat will enhance the safety of your workplace and our compliance serviceswill save you time and resources guaranteeing piece of mine witheighteen years in the industry. We have a proven track record of helpingcustomers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customizesolutions that fit the unique needs of each business to learn more had tosafety services. Companyon thanks for listening to the safetymanagement, show to hear more stories from safety leaders subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us arating until next time stay safe, T, T.

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