The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 11 · 1 month ago

How Collaboration w/ Employees Can Fix Safety Blind Spots w/ Jason Damm

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Safety is not something that can be solved by one person alone. It requires collaboration and buy-in from all levels of an organization. 

As the saying goes, it takes a village. 

Jason Damm , Health and Safety Coordinator, Metric Environmental , shares why it’s important for safety professionals to be humble and factor in feedback from others when investigating and refining safety plans. 

We discuss: 

- Troubleshooting how to fill health and safety blind spots 

- Collaborating with employees on what safety should look like

 - Why stop-work authority sounds more complicated than it is 

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or vi siting our website . Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Safety Management Show in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the SafetyManagement Show where safety professionals share engaging storiesabout their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learnedalong the way. Let's dig in thanks for tuning into the sty management. ShowI'm Jonathan Clayborn, and I'm here this week with Jason Don, who is thenatural resources, project manager and health and See de coordinator at metric,environmental Jason has worked in safety for about three years, worked asthe health and set coordinator at environmental solutions and innovations,and he currently works as the health and C D coordinator metricenvironmental metric, environmental or consultants spaced out of Indianapoliswith offices in Indiana and Ohio Jason. Why don't you tell us a little bitabout that sure? Thank you that trick. Environmental is a full service,environmental, consulting firm. We have offices in Cincinnati Ohio inIndianapolis our headquarters, as well as a recently opened office inLexington, Kentucky and Satellite Office in Gary Indiana. We do workaround assessment and remediation waters, Nipa compliance, culturalresources and environmental health and safety, as well as a little bit ofthreatened and endangered species work great thanks for that Jason. Let's getto know you a little better, what are some typical things you like to do? Youknow when your free time on the weekend or when you're getting up at work on awind? Oh, what okay a little bit about me. I feel I guess most at home whenI'm at the gym, not not necessarily hardcore or anything, it's just a goodway for me to relax and wind down outside of that. We're really bigIndianapolis Indians fans. Okay, so we spend as much time as we possibly can avictory field. Nice Yeah we've got a pretty good pro sports scene down herein Phoenix to we've, got the Phoenix coyotes with gratters on a diamond bags.So we've got there's on a cardinal, so I mean we've got football basketballhockey pretty much everything covered have several. We have others. TheIndians are the feeder team for the pirates. But may we have a soccer teamwhich I've never gone to see basketball. It's always around yeah we've got abunch of the minor leagues and Training Field. The angels train here heard theOakland, as rather they've got a chaining fed on tempe very cool. Solet's talk about your safety career here. Would you think that your pathinto the realm of the safety industry has been pretty typical or atypical?Definitely a typical. I am trained ecologist. I specialize in bats,threatening an dangered vats in the eastern US. My undergraduate were wasfrom the University of Nebraska Carny, where I majored in wild life, biology,moved on to Indiana State University to study biology and got my masters in twothousand and eleven. So most of my work has been that related in two thousandand thirteen. I was working on a project that had a quote unquote:Exorbitant amount of health and safety around it, and this is this issomething that I know we've discussed before ecologists in consulting we havedealt with this. I mean it's something that comes up depending on the project,and you know we usually get the stale you he here's a brief run down of someof our safety rules for the site, and we just want you to wear this this this.While we are out on our site and that's fine, this one was extreme and duringthe duration of this project it was pretty clear that the health and safetywas not necessarily written for us. We had discussed it as a group, both USand the client we were working for and they admitted you know. This issomething we were Misnia for bats along this length of line for an oil and GasCompany, and they admit you know this...

...is something they've never dealt with,they've never had to even think about, and because of that they weren'tnecessarily open about it. But it was pretty clear that they had written allthese rules for us just broadly to sort of cover everything without reallytaking any time to figure out what it is, we're actually going to be doing onthe ground. So because of that that that's actually what sparked myinterest and health and safety from there I at the end of that summerseason, I talked to management and said: Hey, you know, it'd be great. If we hadsomebody here that could maybe act as an intermediary for stuff like this andso take the reins of our health and safety, because we didn't have one whatwe had was sort of the typical scene with HR being told you know: Hey, canyou go get us some safety material, wrangled up off the off the web andsenior management, doing what they can to just get e the stuff out the door?So I felt like there was definitely a gap to be filled there and from thereit just escalated. Several other small trainers that sparked my interest evenfurther. Until I am where I am today, why were you some about small triggersthe other projects with similar similar scenarios? Never quite to that extreme.There is one, though that stands out in my head: it we were subcontracted tohelp out with more VAT MIS netting on another line and the sub contractinggroup. The group that hired US t e theyarranged for their corporate health and safety lead to drive all the way downto where we were. I can't remember where so, southern Ohio- maybesomething like that- he comes out and the the group that hired US- they havetheir own people that are doing similar work. He comes out and he gives ustheir corporate safety peel if he will and he was invited. I mean there's groupsfrom my company at the time. The clients group, as well as I think, twoother subcontracted groups out there and the lead on the clients is call notreally call them out but said, hey. Why don't you come out to a site with UStonight? You know he wasn't going to be coming out with me, but he would havebeen going out with somebody. The idea there was you know, you're down here.This is a great opportunity to mix the two to see what it is we're going,because this guy had honestly no idea either per se. I mean he knew some ofthe work, but not the INS and outs of just being out there and he politelydeclined under the Yeah. I've been driving all day. I justwant to go, hang out get some dinner and it was. It was somewhatdisheartening and you could even see it in the in the client's face. This was a just amissed opportunity. If you will to really, I guess, get in there andfigure out some of the stuff you're saying howrelevant is it to these guys? Because what I've seen on the on the ecologistand biologist side is health and safety is often, I guess, sort of sort ofblind to some of the extremely different kinds of work, and they don'twant to take the time- and I understand but there's a point where you have toreally get in there just to get the body and from other groups and otherpeople so to just kind of summarize all ofthat you're. Basically, what got you into this field? Was this gap whereadministrators or academics or people who are policy makers, would just comeup with arbitrary rules that you're supposed to follow because you're inthe field, without it necessarily working for what you're doingspecifically, is that right? That is correct. Yeah I mean some of it. Couldbe linked to just a thrill and behavior,...

...but I really hate and like seeing some of thereactions and behind closed doors. Talk about health and safety in particular,and what it really comes down to as near as I have been able to tell isjust this disconnect between the two yeah, and that seems to be fairlytypical with some of the other guys that I've talked to as well. Is thatthe people who are often making these health and safety policies they have?It's like they're, trying to make like a one size fits all safety plan. Thatapplies to every situation every time and they can think of every conceivableoutcome that might exist, and they end up just over engineering the safetyregulations, to the point where it's not practical, for what you're doing,because you're never going to encounter these thirty seven potential failuresthat they're talking about a hundred percent. So when thinking back on youryour work experiences and your academic training, would you say that that hasgiven you any extra insight into safety that has benefited your career in someway? It has- and I feel like that could be said, for almost anybody I meandifferent backgrounds coming in and contributing to. The Pot of knowledgeis always a great thing as near as I know, there's not a lot of people whosebackground is what mine is that a have any interest but be wanting tocontribute that type of knowledge into that pot. So it's kind of provided me,I think, most importantly, with a sort of an outside humility to the to thewhole practice of safety, inasmuch as having been on the receiving end. It'svery clear that no one person, health and safety included has all the answersright for any of this, and you know people they're doing what they can, butI feel like they're, just skipping over major portions that couldbe could be investigated and refined quitea bit yeah and personally that's an idea that I have as well as likethere's so much that could happen, that it would be impossible for any oneperson to be an expert in everything you going to get specialized. Peoplewho know about you know these potential failures or these faults, but not theseother ones. So I think it's good that there's like a multipurpose iew processor at the very least, resources that people can reach out to and talk to andkind of work through stuff to figure out. What's the best practices, I thinkthat's the simplest, just in a nut show. You don't need somebody who specializesin an area to take a sudden interest in safety, it's much easier for the healthand safety group coordinator, whoever it is in agiven company if it's a department, so be it to reach out to those people andsay hey. What's what's your input on this, and this doesn't have to beexclusive to say, a senior level person you can be reaching out to and to aninter or entry level, just out of college archaeologist or just general staff member you're justgoing to get that unique, yeah, spector, yeah, definitely yeah and so speakingof perspectives. If somebody was talking to you and they were expressingan interest in making a career in this safety industry, what kind of advicewould you give that person be prepared for difficulty? Definitely I mean, I wouldn't say I'm pigeon holdand I have the luxury of being in a company- that's small and very open topeople having diverse backgrounds so because of that they embrace myinterest in this field, as opposed to just you know, you're in naturalresources, you stay in natural resources. Right, that's...

...that's not true in all companies. Inmost, I would think your I hate to say monetary value as an employee, but yourmonetary value is an employee, comes from you doing what you do best and Ithink it's very important for management, regardless of the size ofcompany, to take into account an employees, personal aspirations. Atthis this one in particular, I've been met with a lot of quote, unquote,hurdles to work for and in most cases I think it's juststrengthened my my drive to get there and in working in the health and cityfield that you have. Is there a believe or a misconception or something that'scome up that you passionately disagree with? Yes, I've got several and I gavethis some thought, but I think the biggest one is definitely treatinghealth and safety as a separate function within a companykind of steering back to what we had just talked about a most, especiallyyour larger companies. They have a separate group or a separate sub groupwithin the company that manages the health and safety and that's fine. It'syou need to have that outlet to put this stuff on to paper, but I have sortof adapted the view of me being sort of a funnel I'm not trying to safety copanybody, I'm not trying to Lord over anybody with the health and safetyrules by more recent approach has just been I'm a funnel. I go out. I collectthis information from the different people in the company and again I havea luxury of that were t just a little over thirty strong, taking theinformation that they give me and trying to steer that and get it onpaper in such a way as to meet compliance. As well as keep them safe, I think there is acertain level of caring that you have to have in the role, because, let's behonest, so most people view health and safety is the enemy sometimes and yeah.You have to really really nurture the goal that you have to make sure peopleare being safe not only on the job side, but you know when they go home and interms of like practices that are carried out within the safety industry.Is there something that you wish everyone would stop doing? Yes, realizethat you're, just one person or one department don't be afraid to reach out.I think- and I think this holds for any background, that any person has he getput on the spot for some information or for something say, somebody wants toknow h immediately, Hey, what's this chemical going to do to me, I think, asa human, the default response is to try to make yourself look good. You youhave an answer, and everybody knows that's not the case whether they wantto admit it or not. There's nothing wrong with saying you know. I don'tknow. Let me get back to you or better, yet, if you can steer for them tosomebody who does know it's, not your sole responsibility as a safetycoordinator manager. Vice President, what have you to have every singleanswer all the time? That's that's why you have a team behind you, yeah and Iknow for me personally, I'm definitely more of the a typical re sponsor. If Idon't know who, in answer to that question, I'm not even going to pretendlike yep it's one like you know, I I don't know it might be totally fine orit might be just Genou, I'm going to look it up for it and I'll quick I'llget back to you in a few minutes and...

...that's yeah and that's very important.I think we had talked prior that people can smell bs and if you try to makestuff up and you're talking to somebody who may not know the answer, but theyknow the way to get to the answer: they're going to know and you're goingto lose that that respect that by and from them it's it never ends well andspeaking of practices. In the safety industry is or something besides justmore integration that you wish people would start doing more of yeah. Stopworrying about compliance solely here. I mean that, obviously, that's a doubleedged sword you have to, but keep in mind that they're people notnumbers, I think far too often, whether intentional or not people startto feel that way, you're viewing them as a statistic in the company and rightI like I said I don't think it's intentional, but there is a level ofcaring that you have to show and when you, when you treat people like anumber they're going to act like a number, I've certainly seen safetypolicies from different companies over my years of working at different placeswhere certain policies are written, even if it's just a vernacular. That'sused in the policy that come across there's a way that I feel as anemployee that this policy is here to you know, protect me and keep me saveand help me get home at the end of the day. And then I've worked at otherplaces where the policy is written in such a way where it feels like thispolicy solely exists to protect the company from Piatin in case of Hyeah.Definitely you know so there's is a huge disparity there and I think theemployees can definitely pick up on those almost certainly if I can pick upon stuff like that, it's a guarantee that most other people can, because Itend to be somewhat dense when it comes to that stuff and in terms of the waythat you approach safety. Is there like a best practice that you've discoveredsomething for that works really well for you, if not necessarily beingrelatively new to the field, I'm kind of always on the lookout for new ideasand new approaches to things and that in a way that could be a, it could beargued that that's a new way of doing things, but I don't think so. I thinkI'm still in the somewhat idealistic phase you still in the honeymoon period,so I speak yeah yeah. Definitely I feel, like I've, become very good at trying to engage people one on one andget some of their input, whether or not it's. What I want to hear is it's up inthe air every time, but you know such as life right and I think that'sdefinitely important to kind of foster those relationships with people and getthe buying from the people who are actually doing the job or have thenolenter experience, because then you can make a more informed plan or a moreinformed decision about. What's really relevant, you can conduct a proper riskanalysis and say you know: Are these risks? You know something potentialthat we should expect to see in the field I mean you can write a safetyplan that has like a potential for asteria, but you know the odds of thathappening are going to be so few that it's not practical to write it yeah. Iheard once that I don't know how true this is. So somebody's should factcheck this before taking it at face value, but I heard once that the CDCactually has plans in place for a Zombie Apocalypse. Oh, so that'sactually pretty funny, and I read this the whole thing that the CDC put out:It's not that they literally have a plan for a Zombie Apocalypse. What theydid was they took all of their regular disease control prevention techniquesand they packaged it in a Zombie apocalypse. Media format because, likethe walking dead, was really popular in...

...there all these hobby movies like worldworse, so they like. If we tell this information to people as a way to fightzombies, then they'll be more likely to read it and absorb it and kind of takethe information to heart, and so that was the whole point behind that thatZombi response campaign, it's like they're, not literally saying, there'sgood es on Tis, but they're like hypothetically. If somebody's existed,you could use these as good and if that's what it takes to get people toread it and take it in that's what it is yeah it my you know my background iseducational psychology, and so I'm always interested in the way peoplelearning. So that's why I jumped on that one, because I thought it was areally fascinating way to get that same information out there like boring,mundane stuff, but people were excited to read it just because it is presentedyeah, I definitely at so. If there's something that in your career, maybeeither you personally or something that you've observed that hasn't gone welland you think it could have gotten better. What was that situation? Ithink when I started out as many I'm sure can relate, I tried to be thesafety cop. I tried to keep tight raining on everything and Iwanted everything to go through me. Me Me. You know, you know the story, Iwouldn't necessarily say it back fired, but I could feel a lot of that sort ofdistaste from other people and then you know I'm the. I ended up actually beingthe one that, following year to get injured and I tripped and fell. Iwasn't wearing my SI protection and landed in a bunch of brush lacerated myeye up a little bit. Luckily, it all healed well, but I from that and that didn't end iteither. I still tried to try to play that role, but that's just not me, and it was pretty clear that I had I was not getting any by in bothfrom staff and from management because of that sort of big head syndrome. Iwas going through so over over time here I just developed into what it isnow where it's almost more of a I work for you guys. I don't go home at nightand think about ways to make your guys as life hell man, I go home at nightand just relax, but I think that that is something especially for entrylevel safety people who are just getting into the field who I can relate to the most in thatsense, try desperately try to steer away from that because it never workswell and if it does, if it does, I feel like your safety culture at yourcompany to begin with somewhat Waki Yeah. I think definitely adopting amindset where you're more collaborative rather than confrontational, almostalways the way to go about that. Definitely you had mentioned that youyou know people were talking about. You know they viewed you as the safety copand and didn't really go well that way and in terms of how you'recommunicating with them now what what sort of messaging has changed in theway that you talk to the different departments and pears within yourcompany to get to communicate that you're on the same team as them ratherthan were. Thankfully, just saying hey, don't do that that that right, there is the biggestproblem that I think I've overcome, but then taking when I sit down, let's saya new hire, letting them know like I am. My door is always open. If you seesomething that you think I'm doing poorly, if you see something as acompany that you think we're doing poorly cap by all means, bring it over and making sure that when somebody doessay something that it's not just sort...

...of brushed off like Oh yeah, this hascome up before treated with the same intent that they're bringing it to youwith make sure that they know that you'reappreciative and I mean be honest to don't don't, say, yeah. Let's look intothat. If you already know that this has been looked into and it's not going towork which that hasn't come up when so far when people have made comments oraddressed a perceived error, it's always been either incorporated or owned. There's so many ways to own it. Withoutlooking like an idiot right, you feel, like people are moreprone to like open up and share these potential safety issues with you ifthey feel like they're, not going to get a hundred in trouble. Definitelyfor doing so, not even just getting in trouble that they're not going to Gettridiculed or condescended to her they're being treated as it is. I meanyou're bringing up a concern. This is even if I don't think this is aconcerter. You clearly do so, let's get to the root of that figure out wherethe line of communication may have broken. I think that's an importantcultural distinction that needs to be made within a company. I worked placeswhere, even if it wasn't safety related, if it was as a policy change or aprocess Chans and you're like hey, I can do this different and better andmore efficiently. Were the entire department can do this more efficientlyif we change X, but the higher up doesn't want to hear that, becausemaybe you know that text part of the process was their idea, and so you knowthey feel like you're attacking them directly or whatever. The case is likethey're, very resistant to any kind of feedback. I think that goes a long wayand kind of shutting down that communication m. It definitely does,and one thing that I guess seniormanagement needs to always keep in mind is when you do have a which I'm not seeing her management byany stretch, but when somebody does bring an issue to you, regardless ofwho they are or where they stand in the company, it's very important to treatthat with gravity I mean there. It takes a tremendous amount of couragefor saying entry level employee to go to the President of the company'sOffice and tell them like hey. I see this and I don't like it yeah. It'sdefinitely not something that people jump. No, I I don't. I don't knowanybody who does that is it's not my favorite thing either in terms of thetools and resources that you use currently to do safety related stuff.Is there a tool that you feel like maybe overlooked, that you'veencountered or is something that you know? Maybe people aren't using to thefullest? I don't think so part of it to be being newer and we keep everythingon now excel spreadsheets. We don't we're not we're not into any high endsoftwares. We don't have the manpower to really warrant something like that.As far as things that that I feel like I might approach differently, I'vealways found stop work authority to be one of the staples to any good or badsafety management plan, and I remember early on in my career gosh all the way up to maybe twothousand and fourteen, when I had actually, you know, started researchingthis stuff and figuring out. What's what familiarizingmyself with Osha a little bit, I stop work authorities, one of those thingsthat's always made to sound more complicated than it actually is. So I tell our new hires and, as I say,during safety refreshers annually, I...

...tell them. This can be as simple as if you're, ina two person group, or even one person, say you're out by yourself and you're,going to have to go climb over some barbed wire fence to get where you'regoing stop work. Authority can be as simple as I've got to go back to thetruck and get some gloves, and maybe some padding or something to put onthis fence you're stopping work to fix something- and it's I mean honestly-maybe people have a better sense in it than I did at that time, but I have seen eyes open from that and justrealizing that. Okay, this. This is a bunch of big words strewn together,although it's not yeah, it's written in ties, yeah and people see that and Ithink they just get intimidate and they get put off by an think that yeah do itor they get confused by the Word Age and don't know what they're supposed todo definitely yeah I've Ren into situations where the you know, oneperson individuals feels like they have to right themselves and got saying Iauthorize myself to stop work because x, Y Z, it been signing, that's notnecessary, now, you're doing with as long as you're doing what you think isbest and if you're an error, you're an error, that'll, it's not going to mountto anything. I mean I've stopped. I actually was it twenty two thousand andnineteen, so pretty recently I folded up this. Was that netting? I fold it up a site justbecause perceived risks me and my technicianwere down in a in a creek bed and we could tell thewaters rising. It hadn't been raining where we were, but to the north of us.It had been, I guess, quite heavily. We're standing out. The water went up afoot on us while we were out there. So I said you know just tear everythingdown. We had more phone service, so we couldn't call anybody and let him knowthat this is spending, and you know we're on time, crunches our SEASONISmiddle of made middle of August. If we fall outside that we don't get the workdone, and this was you know near the end very end of the season. I think thetail week- and I be I'll admit there- was a little bit of concern on my partthat you know is the client going to get upset about this, or somebody in myown company got a rain fire on me, because I decided to compromise the entire nightfor this decision. No, not not one person said a thing.One person said well, that's what you had to do. People just need to calm down, but that,as long as you feel that you needed to do it most people, I any reputableperson isn't going to question you on that. I don't believe yeah. I think that'sprobably true too. It's like in my experience. People generally aren'tgoing to make bad decisions in terms of things that are reckless. When it comesto safety. You know they have that they won't go to work expecting to come homeat the end of the day and that's what they want to do so they're not justgoing to go recklessly, make unsafe decisions and, at the same time mostpeople generally want to get the work done so they're not just going toarbitrarily stop work for things that don't need it. You know if they'restopping work, because usually in their mind, a justified reason for doing so,and I think letting them know that they have the ability and the authority todo that. It will go a long way and definitely now exercising those andit's important for people to realize too that in those situations like like,you alluded to there, the people want to get the work done, would you're insituations that I can relate to like that. I mean you're, a you're, a smallcommunity in the US there's not relative to people. There's not a lotof people who go out and survey for bats at night. You sort of form A. Idon't know how to describe it, but it's...

...a very tight knit community. I can runinto somebody: I've never met, but if they do that same line of work, we havean instant connection and it's it's really kind of a nice thing. Yeahhaving that that kind of comrades definitely helpful, it opens upcontacts and resources and things that are, you know, definitely not necessarily exploitable in thefuture. But you know the open up doors to allow you to have access to otherinformation that you might not otherwise have seen right, but yeah Imean since there's not a lot of people who do that. I mean this can beextrapolated to any group of people. I mean a group of architects go out andthey're doing whatever it is. Architects do, presumably if one ofthem sees a hazard with something they're, going to jump, to support thatdecision race, not a you're, not going to getcrucified over that yeah and you shouldn't. Is there anything that youhave tried recently within your company that went really well or that you weresurprised by the result of there? Is it's weird, though, because it'ssomething that I'm working toward? It's not something that has happened yet,but I have gotten management by in on this. This proposal is to form acommittee within the company. Getting you say, like I said, I mean we'rethirty three people, maybe something like that, getting one person from eachof these groups to sort of serve on a safety committee and that way when I have a concern or ifthey have a concern, we can pool those thoughts and figure out. Is this evenrelevant if it is what are the best steps we can take going forward to toeliminate some of this potential hazard down the road, and it's come up looselyin conversation with a few people in the company who are you know we'relooking at? Maybe having them be on be on that committee? Then it seems likethe the buying and the interest. Is there that's good, and I think it'sonly going to make us stronger a company going through that yeah? Iwould agree in with this committee. Are you guys going to be doing any kind oflike trend analysis where you're looking at the different kinds ofincidents that have occurred to see like over a period of time as this kindof incident increased or decreased and any kind of that analytics? It willcome up knock on wood. We have not had any incidents since since I've beenwith the company, but we don't historically, I think there's been one,maybe two, but yes, that's that's. Definitely something will willinvestigate. I think my focus is. I will continue to bemostly just trying to avoid keep it where it keep, keep us on thestraight and narrow, and I think you group like this having that sort ofsupport to spread out throughout the other groups. I think it's just goingto be in value some of the things that other companies that have worked atwhen either annually or by an ally they'll do like a anonymous safetysurvey to like survey monkey or some similar engine where they ask us likehalf a dozen safety related questions about you know, do we feel safe doingour job and you feel like we're. The set protocols are adequate and arethere any specific areas that we feel could be improved? You know, so whatare they and we can send it all anonymously back to them and thensurvey monkey, you know, runs their analytics and gives it on the back end.So they can say you know he two point: seven percent of the employees feelsleep at work, but then, like twelve people said this is a problem, so weshould probably look at it. I would not be opposed to that. I would love doingsomething like that. However, I feel like, and you know we can smell our ownin this sense, I feel like often times when these surveys are sent out...

...under the pretense of being anonymous.I think a lot of employees can suffer some trust issue with that, so italways ends up being sort of skewed to the positiveand yeah. I don't know a good way to eliminate that I do know. I sat in on asome sort of large scale office audit once and prior to this event, all theemployees in the office were given one of these surveys and it was anonymous and I'm sitting in this room with oneof the senior people in the company and he flips to my sort of set of pages inthis giant folder and he's not quoting. But it's like he's reading directlyfrom my responses so and I don't know how that works.Maybe I misread something, but I guess, if you put out surveys you have to make,I don't know if there's a way to make sure that employees know that this isindeed an anomos yeah. It's been kind of funny in my background, becauseoften they truly are anonymous. That will have like the IP address that itcomes from and that's usually about it. It doesn't require you to put in youremail, undress or any of that, but sometimes it's on like pseudo anonymous,because he'll ask you for your department. What department do you workin and or how long have you been employed with the company and a lot ofmy jobs that I held over the years? I've either been the only person in mydepartment or I've been one of two people in my department. So if I putdown that, I work in you know, training department and that's what I'm sayingthen they obviously can figure out that. It's me because I'm the only one inthat department so yeah, it's kind of interesting. I feel like it's a catchtwenty two and in a lot of ways I feel like they can be useful. But, like youwere saying it's finding that fin line between validating that trust andmaking sure that you're not breaking it and making sure that you're actuallytaking the negative stuff that comes from that and figuring out what to doit yeah! It's like it's the same as you go and say your on Amazon and youyou're. Looking at it item and it's retreated well, so you go and you openit up. I guess my mo going into something like that is to look for allthe negatives, so I go to the one in two strings. What's the consistentpattern here and what are they assisting the battery dies and threedays- and it says that forty times throughout these reviews that it's anindicator to me that, okay, you know if I, if I purchased this, I should planon getting some backup battery or something there's a fifty fifty chanceas batteries going to go, yeah and and the same would be true for any sort ofanalytics like that I mean, if, if I'm going to do it, I want to make surethat people know it is anonymous and be I'm going to look for those thoseindicators that show what I'm doing or what the company is doing poorly and work on that. I already feel goodabout myself too often so I'll just do that. Is there anything that your teamhas achieved recently that you've been really proud of yeah. I am really proud to say that we we'veactually recently started, or we started our environmental, health andsafety services or from the company as a service to clients. This wassomething that I think had sort of been tried once and fallen apart to the lackof manpower in that field. Lack of interest to my knowledge T, I'm theonly one in the company that gets super...

...amped about topics such as this rightand- and I am very excited to see this kick off and start doing- that. I findit fascinating. It's interesting how you think that other there's a psychologicalphenomenon that happens there, where, just because you like something or someeverybody else likes it too yeahs. You want to go and just share that witheverybody, and often that's very, not not the case. I'm kind of a pine nut like the twenty six invader inparticularly my grandfather, was a gunner on one in Korea. So I'm a littleobsessed with that aircraft and under talk about it, everybody yeah. I noteverybody, shares that same interest, though ye it's kind of weird yeah. Itis funny how that works. I had I was working pretty closely with this onegirl one summer she was serving as my technician and deadly night I would betalking about. Is One time that at the gym or this this one time the track orwhatever and she finally broke once and said you know, I don't find thatinteresting right and you know we had formed another one of those sort ofbonds. For you know, we could speak pretty freely around each other and no,I didn't know that I get really excited here, so I thoughteveryone did and embarrassingly that was only what fiveyears ago and I was just realizing that people aren't interested in the samethings yeah the the term, the technical term, for it escapes me at the moment,I'll probably remember as soon as we hang out, but it's one of those thingswhere you know you come across that a lot where, just because you're excited about it,just because you're excited about this new safety plan doesn't mean theemployees are going to be definitely yeah they're viewing it is crap butyeah, but I will, I will say it does not hurt your cause to have a truepassion and true excitement for the material. Definitely- and that'ssomething I definitely agree with. I think the more excited and passionateyou are about it, the more by in other people, will get just kind ofperipherally because you're excited about it. Yeah people are going to thanthere must be something here. I don't know what it is, but let's hear the guyout yeah all right Jason. Why I want to be mindful of your time. So thank youvery much for joining a thank you for having me. If you need to contractenviron metric environmental, you can reach out and find them on theirwebsite Jason. Do you know what the website is at the top of your head? Itis www metric en vom. So if you need metric environmental services, M you'rein that part of the country definitely reach out get Jason. I call and thanksfor tuning in this week, I'm Jonathan Clayborne, with the safety managementshow Brat by C t services come in need of a blue print for workplacesafety and Compliance Safety Services. Company is North America's leadingprovider of safety, training and compliant solutions. We supply customsafety manuals and policies and on sight and online training solutionsthat will enhance the safety of your workplace and our compliance serviceswill save you time and resources guaranteeing peace of mind witheighteen years in the industry we have a proven track record of helpingcustomers achieved better safety outcomes by providing customizesolutions that fit the unique needs of each business to learn more had tosafety services. Companyon thanks for listening to the safetymanagement, Shell, to hear more stories from safety leaders subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us arating until next time stay safe. I.

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