The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 11 · 11 months ago

How Collaboration w/ Employees Can Fix Safety Blind Spots w/ Jason Damm

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Safety is not something that can be solved by one person alone. It requires collaboration and buy-in from all levels of an organization. 

As the saying goes, it takes a village. 

Jason Damm , Health and Safety Coordinator, Metric Environmental , shares why it’s important for safety professionals to be humble and factor in feedback from others when investigating and refining safety plans. 

We discuss: 

- Troubleshooting how to fill health and safety blind spots 

- Collaborating with employees on what safety should look like

 - Why stop-work authority sounds more complicated than it is 

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or vi siting our website . Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Safety Management Show in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the Safety Management Show, where safety professional share engaging stories about their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learned along the way. Let's dig in. Thanks for tuning into the CT management show. I'm Jonathan Claiborne and I'm here this week with Jason Don, who's a natural resources project manager and health and set coordinator at metric environmental. Jason is worked in safety for about three years, worked as the health and CT coordinator at environmental solutions and innovations and he currently works as the health and safet coordinator a metric environmental. Metric environmental or consultant spaced out of Indianapolis with offices in Indiana and Ohio. Jason, why don't you tell us a little bit about them? Sure, thank you. That trick environmental is a full service environmental consulting firm. We have offices in Cincinnati, Ohio, in Indianapolis our headquarters, as well as a recently opened office in Lexington, Kentucky, and Satellite Office in Gary, Indiana. We do work around assessment and re mediation watersneep a, compliance, cultural resources and environmental health and safety, as well as a little bit of threatened and endangered species work great. Thanks for that, Jason. Let's get to know you a little better. What are some typical things you like to do, you know, when you're free time on the weekend or when you're getting off a work to unwind? Oh what? Okay, a little bit about me. I feel, I guess, most at home when I'm at the gym. Not not necessarily hardcore or anything. It's just a good way for me to relax and wind down. Outside of that, we're really big Indianapolis Indians fans. Okay, so we spend as much time as we possibly can a victory field. Nice. Yeah, we've got a pretty good pro sports seen down here in Phoenix to we've got the Phoenix coyotees. We've got there as on a diamondbacks, we've got there's on a cardinals. I mean got football, basketball, hockey, pretty much everything covered. have several, we have others. The Indians are the feeder team for the pirates, but they we have a soccer team which I've never gone to see. Basketball it's always around. Yeah, we've got a bunch of the minor leagues and Training Field. The angels trained here or the Oak Winda's rather they've got a training field and tempe. Very cool. So let's talk about you were safety career here. Would you think that your path into the realm of the safety industry has been pretty typical or a typical definitely a typical. I am trained ecologist. I specialize in bats, threatened endangered bats in the eastern US. My undergraduate work was from the University of Nebraska Carney, where a majored and wildlife biology. MOVED ON TO INDIANA State University to study biology and got my master's in two thousand and eleven. So most of my work has been that related. In two thousand and thirteen I was working on a project that had a, quote unquote, exorbitant amount of health and safety around it, and this is this is something that I know we've discussed before ecologists in Consulting. We have dealt with this. I mean it's something that comes up depending on the project and you know, we usually get this stale. You know he's here's a brief rundown of some of our safety rules for the site and we just want you to wear this, this this while we are out on our sites, and that's fine. This one was extreme and during the duration of this project. It was pretty clear that the health and safety was not necessarily written for us. We had discussed it as a group, both US and the client we were working for, and they admitted, you know, this is something we were missnetting for bats along this length of line for an oil and gas company, and they admit, you know, this is something...

...they've never dealt with, they've never had to even think about and because of that they weren't necessarily open about it. But it was pretty clear that they had written all these rules for us just broadly to sort of cover everything, without really taking any time to figure out what it is we're actually going to be doing on the ground. And so because of that that, that's actually what sparked my interest and health and safety. From there, I at the end of that summer season, I talked to management and said, Hey, you know it, it'd be great if we had somebody here could maybe act as an intermediary for stuff like this and so take the reins of our health and safety, because we didn't have one. What we had was sort of the typical scene with hr being told, you know, hey, can you go get us some safety material wrangled up off the off the web and senior management doing what they can to just get the stuff out the door. So I felt like there was definitely a gap to be filled there and from there it just escalated. Several other small triggers. It sparked my interest even further until I am where I am today. When were some of those small triggers? The other projects with similar, similar scenarios never quite to that extreme. There is one, though, that stands out in my head. It we were subcontracted to help out with more bat missnetting on another line and the subcontracting group, or the group that hired us, they they arranged for their corporate health and safety lead to drive all the way down to where we were. I can't remember where, so southern Ohio, maybe something like that. He comes out and the the group that hired us. They have their own people that are doing similar work. He comes out and he gives us their corporate safety speel, if you will, and he was invited. I mean there's groups from my company at the time, the clients group, as well as, I think, to other subcontract it groups out there and the lead on the clients and called, not really called him out, that said Hey, why don't you come out to a site with US tonight. And you know, he wasn't going to be coming out with me, but he would have been going out with somebody. The idea there was, you know, you're down here, this is a great opportunity to mix the two, to see what it is we're doing, because this guy had honestly no idea either per se. I mean he knew some of the work, but not the INS and outs of just being out there, and he politely declined under the Yeah, I've been driving all day, I just want to go hang out get some dinner, and it was it was somewhat disheartening and you could even see it in the in the clients face. This was a just a missed opportunity, if you will, to really, I guess, get in there and figure out some of the stuff you're saying. How relevant is it to these guys, because what I've seen on the on the ecologist and the biologist side is health and safeties often, I guess, sort of sort of blind to some of the extremely different kinds of work and they don't want to take the time, and I understand, but there's a point where you have to really get in there just to get the buy in from other groups and other people. So, to just kind of summarize all of that, you're basically what got you into this field was this gap where administrators or academics or people who are policy makers would just come up with arbitrary rules that you're supposed to follow because you're in the field, without it necessarily working for what you're doing specifically. Is that right? That is correct. Yeah, I mean, some of it could be linked to just a thrill and behavior, but I really...

...hate and like seeing some of the reactions and behind closed doors. Talk about health and safety in particular, and what it really comes down to, as near as I have been able to tell, is just this disconnect between the two. Yeah, and that seems to be fairly typical with some of the other guests that I've talked to. As well as that, the people who are often making these health and safety policies they have it's like they're trying to make like a one size fits all safety plan that applies to every situation every time, and they they could think of every conceivable outcome that might exist and they end up just over engineering the safety regulations to the point where it's not practical for what you're doing, because you're ever going to encounter these thirty seven potential failures that they're talking about hundred percent. So, when thinking back on your your work experiences and your academic training, would you say that that has given you any extra insight into safety that has benefited your career in some way? It has, and I feel like that could be said for almost anybody, I mean different backgrounds. Coming in and contributing to the pot of knowledge is always a great thing. As near as I know, there's not a lot of people whose background is what mine is, that a have any interest but be or wanting to contribute that type of knowledge into that pot. So it's kind of provided me, I think, most importantly, with a sort of an outside humility to the to the whole practice of safety, in as much as having been on the receiving end. It's very clear that no one person, health and safety included, has all the answers right for any of this. And you know people they're doing what they can, but I feel like they're just s skipping over major portions that could be could be investigated and refined quite a bit. Yeah, and personally that that's an idea that I have as well as like there's so much that could happen that it would be impossible for any one person to be an expert in everything and going to get specialized people who know about, you know, these potential failures. Are these faults, but not these other ones. So I think it's good that there's like a multiperson review process or at the very least resources that people can reach out to and talk to and kind of work through stuff to figure out what's the best practices. I think that's the simplest. Just in a nutshell, you don't need somebody who specializes in an area to take a sudden interest in safety. It's much easier for the health and safety group coordinator, whoever it is in a given company. If it's a department, so be it, to reach out to those people and say, Hey, what's what's your input on this? And this doesn't have to be exclusive to, say, a senior level person. You can be reaching out to and to an intern or entry level just out of college, archeologist or just general staff member. You just shouldn't get that unique perspective. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And so, speaking of perspectives, if somebody was talking to you and they were expressing an interest in making a career in this safety industry. What kind of advice would you give that person? BE PREPARED FOR DIFFICULTY? Definitely. I mean I wouldn't say I'm pigeonholed and I have the luxury of being in a company that's small and very open to people having diverse backgrounds. So because of that they embrace my interest in this field as opposed to just you know, you're in natural resources, you stay in natural resources, right. That's that's not...

...true in all companies. In most, I would think you're I hate to say monetary value as an employee, but your monetary value as an employee comes from you doing what you do best, and I think it's very important for management, regardless of the size of company, to take into account unemployees personal aspirations. At this this one in particular, I've been met with a lot of, quote unquote, hurdles to work forward and in most cases I think it's just strengthened my my drive to get there and in working in the health and set field. No, you have is there a believe or misconception or something that's come up that you passionately disagree with? Yes, I've got several and I gave this some thought, but I think the biggest one is definitely treating health and safety as a separate function within a company, kind of steering back to what we had just talked about. Most especially your larger companies, they have a separate group or a separate subgroup within the company that manages the health and safety and that's fine. It's you need to have that outlet to put this stuff onto paper. But I have sort of adapted the view of me being sort of a funnel. I'm not trying to safety cop anybody, I'm not trying to Lord over anybody with the health and safety rules. By more recent approach has just been I'm a funnel. I go out, I collect this information from the different people in the company and again, I have a luxury of that were there just a little over thirty strong, taking the information that they give me and trying to steer that and get it on paper in such a way as to meet compliance as well as keep them safe. I think there is a certain level of caring that you have to have in the role because, let's be honest, most people view health and safety as the enemy sometimes, and yeah, you have to really really nurture the goal that you have to make sure people are being safe, not only on the job site but, you know, when they go home and in terms of like practices that are carried out within the seet industry. Is there's something that you wish everyone would stop doing? Yes, realize that you're just one person or one department. Don't be afraid to reach out, I think, and I think this holds for any background that any person has. You get put on the spot for some information or for something, say, somebody wants to know immediately, Hey, what's this chemical going to do to me? I think as a human the default response is to try to make yourself look good. You you have an answer and everybody knows that's not the case, whether they want to admit it or not. There's nothing wrong with saying you know, I don't know, let me get back to you or, better yet, if you can steer them to somebody who does know. It's not your soul responsibility as a safety coordinator, manager, Vice President, what have you, to have every single answer all the time. That's that's why you have a team behind you. Yeah, and I know for me personally, I'm definitely more of the atypical response there. If I don't know an answer to that question, I'm not even going to pretend like yeah, it's gonna be like, you know, I don't know. It might be totally fine or it might be just skin enough. I'm going to look it up for you and I'll quick. I'll get back to you in a few minutes, and...

...that's yeah, and that's very important. I think we had talked prior that people can smell bs and if you try to make stuff up and you're talking to somebody who may not know the answer but they know the way to get to the answer, they're going to know and you're going to lose that that respect, that buy in from them. It's it never ends well. And speaking of practices in the safety industries or something besides, just more integration that you wish people would start doing more of. Yeah, stop worrying about compliance solely here. I mean that. Yet obviously that's a double edged sword. You have to but keep in mind that they're people, not numbers. I think far too often, whether intentional or not, people start to feel that way if you're viewing them as a statistic in the company. And right I like I said, I don't think it's intentional, but there is a level of caring that you have to show and when you when you treat people like a number, they're going to act like a number. I've certainly seen safety policies from different companies over my years of working at different places where certain policies are written, even if it's just a vernacular that's used in the policy, that come across as a way that I feel as an employee that this policy is here to, you know, protect me and keep me safe and help me get home at the end of the day. And then I've worked at other places where the policy is written in such a way where it feels like this policy solely exists. Who protect the company from variation in case something yeah, definitely, you know. So this is a huge disparity there and I think the employees can definitely pick up on those. Almost certainly, if I can pick up on stuff like that, it's a guarantee that most other people can, because I tend to be somewhat dense when it comes to that stuff. And in terms of the way that you approach safety is they're like a best practice that you've discovered something for that works really well for you, not necessarily being relatively new to the field, I'm kind of always on the lookout for new ideas and new approaches to things and that, in a way, that could be a it could be argued that that's a new way of doing things, but I don't think so. I think I'm still in the somewhat idealistic phase. You still in the honeymoon period, so to speak? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I feel like I've become very good at trying to engage people one on one and get some of their input. Whether or not it's what I want to hear is it's up in the air every time. But you know, such as life, right, and I think that's definitely important to kind of foster those relationships with people and get the buy in from the people who are actually doing the job or have the knowledge or experience, because then you can make a more informed plan or a more informed decision about what's really you relevant and you can conduct a proper risk analysis and say, you know, are these risks? You know something potential that we should expect to see in the field. I mean you you can write a safety plan that has like a potential for asteroid impact. But you know the odds of that happening are going to be so few that it's not practical to write it. Yeah, I heard once that. I don't know how true this is, so somebody's should fact check this before taking it a face value. But I heard once that the CDC actually has plans in place for a Zombie Apocalypse. So so that's actually pretty funny. I and I read this the whole thing that the CDC put out. It's not that they literally have a plan for a Zombie Apocalypse. What they did was they took all of their regular disease control prevention techniques and they packaged it in a Zombie apocalypse media format because, like the walking dead was really popular and they're all these Zombie movies like...

World War Z. So they like, if we tell this information to people as a way to fight zombies, then they'll be more likely to read it and absorb it and kind of take the information to heart. And so that was the whole point behind that, that Zombie Response Campaign. It's like they're not literally saying there's good the ZOMBIES, but they're like, hypothetically zombies existed, you could use these things good fight and if that's what it takes to get people to read it and take it in. That's what it is. Yeah, in my you know my background, it's educational psychology, and so I'm always interested in the way people learning. So that's why I jumped on that one, because I thought it was a really fascinating way to get that same information out there, like boring, mundane stuff, but people were excited to read it just because it was presented definitely for meat. So it's there something that in your career, maybe either you personally or something that you've observed the hasn't gone well and you think it could have gone better? What was that situation? I think when I started out, as as many, I'm sure, can relate, I tried to be the safety cop. I tried to keep tight rain in on everything and I wanted everything to go through me, me, me, you know, you know the story. I wouldn't necessarily say it backfired, but I could feel a lot of that sort of distaste from other people and then, you know, I'm the I ended up actually being the one that, following year to get injured. I tripped and fell. I wasn't wearing my I protection and landed in a bunch of rush lacerated my eye off a little bit, luckily at all. Healed well, but I from that and that didn't end it either. I still tried to try to play that role, but that's just not me and it was pretty clear that I had. I I was not getting any by in both from staff and from management because of that sort of big head central I was going through. So over, over time here just developed into what it is now. We're it's almost more of a I work for you guys. I don't go home at night and think about ways to make your guys as life Hell. I go home at night and just relax. But I think that that is something especially for entry level safety people who are just getting into the field, who I can relate to the most. In that sense, try desperately try to steer away from that, because it never works well. And if it does, if it does, I feel like your safety culture at your company to begin with somewhat wonky. Yeah, I think definitely adopting a mindset where you're more collaborative rather than confrontation was almost always the way to go about that. Definitely. You had mentioned that you you know people we're talking about. You know they viewed you as the seafety cop and and didn't really go well that way. And in terms of how you're communicating with them now, what what sort of messaging has changed in the way that you talk to the different departments and peers than your company to kind of communicate that you're on the same team as them rather than we're, thankfully, just saying hey, you don't do that, that that right. There's the biggest problem that I think I've overcome. But then taking when I sit down with, say, a new hire, letting them know, look, I'm my doors always open. If you see something that you think I'm doing poorly, if you see something as a company that you think we're doing poorly, yeah, by all means bring it over and making sure that when somebody does say something that it's not...

...just sort of brushed off like Oh, yeah, this has come up before. Treat it with the same intent that they're bringing it to you with. Make sure that they know that you're appreciative and I mean be honest to it. Don't don't say yeah, let's look into that, if you already know that this has been looked into and it's not going to work, which that hasn't come up. When so far, when people have made comments or addressed perceived error, it's always been either incorporated or owned. There's so many ways to own it without looking like an idiot. Right you feel like people are more prone to like open up and share these potential safety issues with you if they feel like they're not going to gay, oh a hundred in trouble definitely for doing so, not even just getting in trouble. They're not going to get ridiculed or condescended to their they're being treated as it is. I mean, you're bringing up a concern. This is even if I don't think this is a concern, you clearly do. So let's get to the root of that figure out where the line of communication they have broken. I think that's an important cultural distinction that means to be made within a company. I've worked places where, even if it wasn't safety related, if it was just a policy change or a process chains and you're like, Hey, I can do this different and better and more efficiently, or the entire department can do this more efficiently if we change x, but the higher up doesn't want to hear that because maybe you know that x part of the process was their idea and so, you know, they feel like you're attacking them directly or whatever the case is. Like they're very resistant to any kind of feedback. I think that goes a long way and kind of shutting down that communication. M It definitely does. And one thing that I guess senior management needs always keep in mind is when you do have a which I'm not seeing management by any stretch, but when somebody does bring an issue to you, regardless of who they are or where they stand in the company, it's very important to treat that with gravity. I mean they're it takes a tremendous amount of courage for, say, an entry level employee to go to the President of the company's Office and tell them like, Hey, I see this and I don't like it. Yeah, it's definitely not something that people jump out. I don't. I don't know anybody who does. It's not my favorite thing. Eating in terms of the tools in the resources that you use currently to do safety related stuff, as they're a tool that you feel like maybe overlooked, that you've encountered or is something that you know maybe people aren't using to the fullest. I don't think so. Part of it's be being newer and we keep everything on excel spreadsheets. We don't, we're not we're not into any high end software, as we don't have the manpower to really warrant something like that. As far as things that that I feel like I might approach differently, I've always found stop work authority to be one of the staples to any good or bad safety management plan, and I remember early on in my career, Gosh, all the way up to maybe two thousand and fourteen, when I had actually, you know, started researching this stuff and figuring out what's what, familiarizing myself with ohshow a little bit. I stop work at sthority's one of those things that's always made to sound more complicated than it actually is. So I tell our new hires and as a say during safety refreshers annually, I...

...tell them this can be as simple as if you're in a two person group or even a one person say you're out by yourself and you're going to have to go climb over some barbed wire fence to get where you're going. Stop Work Authority can be as simple as I've got to go back to the truck and get some gloves and maybe some padding or something to put on this fence. You're stopping work to fix something and it's I mean, honestly, maybe people have a better sense of it than I did at that time, but I have seen eyes open from that and just realizing that, okay, this, this is a bunch of big words strewn together, although it's not yeah, it's written me the he's yeah, and people see that and I think they just get intimidate and they get put off by and think that yeah, it, or they get confused by the Word Itche and don't know when they're supposed to do definitely yeah. I I've run into situations where the you know, one person, individuals feels like they have to write themselves a note saying I authorize myself to stop work because X, Y Z, and then sight it. That's not necessary. No, now you're doing what as long as you're doing what you think is best, and if you're an error, you're an error. That'll it. It's not going to mount to anything. I mean, I've stopped actually, was it two thousand and two thousand and nineteen? So pretty recently I folded up this. Was that netting? I folded up a site just because of perceived risks. Me and my technician were down in a in a creek bed and we could tell the waters rising. It hadn't been raining where we were, but to the north of us it had been, I guess, quite heavily. We're standing out the water went up a foot on us while we were out there. So I said, you know, just tear everything down. We had no phone service, so we couldn't call anybody and let him know that this is ending. And you know we're on time crunches. Our season is middle of made, middle of August. If we fall outside that, we don't get the work done. And this was, you know, near the end, very end of the season, I think the tail week. And I'll be I'll admit there was a little bit of concern on my part that, you know, is, is the client going to get upset about this, or is somebody in my own company going to rain fire on me because I decided to compromise the entire night for this decision. No, not. Not One person said a thing. One person said, well, that's what you had to do. People just need to calm down with that. As long as you feel that you needed to do it most deep by any reputable person isn't going to question you on that. I don't believe yeah, I think that's probably true to it's like in my experience, people generally aren't going to make bad decisions in terms of things that are reckless when it comes to safety. You know, they have that. They won't go to work expecting to come home at the end of the day and that's what they want to do. So they're not just going to go recklessly make unsafe decisions. And at the same time, most people generally want to get the work done, so they're not just going to arbitrarily stop work for things that don't need it. You know, if they're stopping work, there is usually, and their mind, a justified reason for doing so, and I think letting them know that they have the ability in the authority to do that will go a long way and definitely exercising those and it's important for people to realize too that in those situations like you alluded to, their people want to get the work done. Would you're in situations that I can relate to like that? I mean you're a you're a small community and the US there's not relative to people there's not a lot of people who go out and survey for bats at night. You sort of form of I don't...

...know how to describe it, but it's a very tight knit community. Yeah, I can run into somebody I've never met, but if they do that same line of work, we have an instant connection and it's a it's it's really kind of a nice thing. Yeah, having that kind of combarader. He's definitely helpful. It opens up contacts and resources and things that are, you know, definitely necessarily exploitable in the future, but, you know, the open up doors to allow you to have access to other information that you might not otherwise. I've seen right. But yeah, I mean, since there's not a lot of people who do that, I mean this can be extrapolated to any group of people. I mean a group of architects go out, they're doing whatever it is architects do. Presumably, if one of them sees a hazard was something, they're going to jump to support that decision, right. It's not a you're not going to get crucified over that. Yeah, and you shouldn't. Is there anything that you have tried recently within your company that went really well or that you were surprised by the result of there is. It's weird, though, because it's something that I'm working toward. It's not something that has happened yet, but I have gotten management buy in on this. This proposal is to form a committee within the company, getting, you say, like I said, I mean we're thirty three people, maybe something like that, getting one person from each of these groups to sort of serve on a safety committee and that way when I have a concern or if they have a concern, we can pool those thoughts and figure out is this even relevant? If it is, what are the best steps we can take going forward to to eliminate some of this potential hazard down the road? And I it's come up loosely in conversation with a few people in the company who are, you know right. We're looking at maybe having them beyond be on that committee and it seems like the the buy and in the interest is there. That's good and I think it's only going to make us stronger company going through that. Yeah, I would agree in with this committee. Are you guys going to be doing any kind of like trend analysis where you're looking at the different kinds of incidents that have occurred to see like over a period of time as this kind of incident increased or decreased and any kind of that analytics. It will come up. Knock on wood, we have not had any incidences since I've been with the company, but we don't. Historically I think there's been one, maybe two. But yes, that's that's definitely something will will investigate. I think my focus is and will continue to be mostly just trying to avoid keep it where it keep keep us on the straight and narrow and I think, yeah, group like this having that sort of support to spread out throughout the other groups. I think it's just going to be in value. Some of the things that other companies that I've worked when, either annually or bi annually, they'll do like anonymous safety survey to like survey monkey or some similar engine, where they asked us like half a dozen safety related questions about, you know, do we feel safe during our job and do you feel like we're the safety protocols are adequate and are there any specific areas that we feel could be improved? You know, so what are they? And we can send it all anonymously back to them and then serve a monkey, you know, runs their analytics and gives it on the back end so they can say, you know, here two point seven percent of the employees will see but work. But then, like twelve people said, this is a problem, so we should probably look at it. I would not be opposed to that. I would love doing something like that. However, I feel like, and you know, we can smell our own in this sense, I feel like oftentimes, when these surveys are sent out under the...

...pretense of being anonymous, I think a lot of employees can suffer some trust issue with that. So it always ends up being sort of skewed to the positive. And Yeah, yeah, I don't know a good way to eliminate that. I do know I sat in on a some sort of large scale office audit what and prior to this event all the employees in the office were given one of these surveys and it was anonymous and I'm sitting in this room with one of the senior people in the company and he flips to my sort of set of pages in this giant folder and he's not quoting, but it's like he's reading directly from my responses. So, and I don't know how that works. Maybe I misread something, but I guess if you put out surveys you have to make I don't know if there's a way to make sure that employees know that this is indeed anonymous. Yeah, and it's been kind of funny in my background because often they truly are anonymous. That'll have like the IP address that it comes from and that's usually about it. It doesn't require you to put in your email undress or any of that. But sometimes it's only like pseudo anonymous because it'll ask you for your department or Department do you work in and or how long have you been employed with the company? And in a lot of my jobs that I've held over the years I've either been the only person in my department or I've been one of two people in my department. So if I put down that I work in, you know, training department, and that's what I'm saying, then they obviously can figure out that it's me because I'm the only one in that department. So yeah, it's kind of interesting. I feel like it's a catch twenty two and in a lot of ways I feel like they can be useful but, like you were saying, it's finding that fine line between validating that trust and making sure that you're not breaking it and making sure that you're actually taking the the negative stuff that comes from that and figuring out what to do it. Yeah, it's like it's the same as you go and say you're on Amazon and you you're looking at an item and it's it's rated well, so you go and you open it up. I guess my mo o going into something like that is to look for all the negatives. So I go to the one in two things. What's the consistent pattern here? And one of they all this thing the battery guys and three days, and it says that forty times throughout these reviews. That it's an indicator to me that, okay, you know, if I if I purchase this, I should plan on getting some backup battery or some yeah, this is a fifty chances battery is going to good and and the same would be true for any sort of analytics like that. I mean, if I'm if I'm going to do it, I want to a make sure that people know it is anonymous and be I'm going to look for those, those indicators that show what I'm doing or what the company is doing poorly and work on that. I already feel good about myself too often, so I'll just do that. Is there anything that your team has achieved recently that you've been really proud of? Yeah, I am really proud to say that we we've actually recently started or restarted our environmental health and safety services for from the company as a service to clients. This was something that I think has sort of been tried once and falling apart due to lack of manpower in that field lack of interest. To my knowledge, I'm the only one in the company that gets super amped about topics such as this R and...

...and I am very excited to see this kick off and start doing that. I find it fascinating. It's interesting how you think that there's a psychological phenomenon that happens there where just because you like something, you're soon everybody else likes it too. Yeah, so you want to go and just share that with everybody, and often that's very not not the case. kind of a plane nut like the eight hundred and twenty six invader, in particular, my grandfather was a gunner on one in Korea and SOM obsessed with that aircraft and understand talk about it to everybody? Yeah, definitely, not everybody shares that same interest though. Yeah, it's kind of weird. Yeah, it is funny how that works. I had was working pretty closely with this one girl one summer she was surveying as my tech mission and every night I would be talking about it's one time at the at the gym or this this one time the track or whatever, and she finally broke once and said, you know, I don't find that interesting. Right, and you know, we had formed another one of those sort of bonds or you know, we could speak pretty freely around each other. And No, I didn't know that. I I get really excited here. So I thought everyone did. And embarrassingly that was only what five years ago, and I was just realizing that people aren't interested in the same things. Yeah, the the term, the technical term for it, escapes me at the moment. I'll probably remember as soon as we hang out, but it's one of those things where you know, you you come across that a lot where just because you're excited about it, just because you're excited about this new safety plan, doesn't mean the employees are going to be. Definitely, yeah, they're. They're viewing it is crap. But yeah, it, but I will I will say it does not hurt your cause to have a true passion and true excitement for the material. Definitely, and that's something I definitely agree with. I think the more excited and passionate you are about it, the more buying the other people will get, just kind of peripherally because you're excited about it. Yeah, people are going to think they there must be something here. I don't know what it is, but let's hear the guy out. Yeah, all right, Jason. Well, I want to be mindful of your time, so thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for having me. If you need to contract environment metric environmental you can reach out and find them on their website. Jason, do you know what their website is? On the top of your head, it is wwwo metric envcom. So if you need metric environmental services and you're in that part of the country, definitely reach out, get Jason a call and thanks for tuning in. This week I'm Jonathan claiborn with the safety management show, brought to you by Safety Services Company. In need of a blueprint for workplace safety and compliance. Safety Services Company is North America's leading provider of safety training and compliance solutions. We supply custom safety manuals and policies and onsite and online training solutions that will enhance the safety of your workplace, and our compliance services will save you time and resources, guaranteeing peace of mind. With eighteen years in the industry, we have a proven track record of helping customers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customized solutions that fit the unique needs of each business. To learn more, head to safety services COMPANYCOM. Thanks for listening to the Safety Management Show. To hear more stories from safety leaders, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoy the show, leave us a rating. Until next time, stay safe.

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