The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 9 · 1 week ago

Navigating the Process of Recordable Incidents w/ Mark Sutton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Risks exist everywhere and unfortunately you cannot eliminate them all. As a result, the most important thing to learn to do is to better respond to recordable incidents and train your employees to avoid them in the future.

In this episode, Mark Sutton , Corporate Manager - Environmental Health and Safety at Parallel Products, shares the tips and tricks he has learned for improving safety within an organization.

We discuss:

  • Keeping operations managers focused on safety
  • How to approach recordable incidents
  • Tips and tricks to improve safety
  • Steps for responding to a safety incident

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

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You're listening to the SafetyManagement Show where safety professionals share engaging storiesabout their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learnedalong the way. Let's dig in thank you for joining the Safety Management Show.I am your host Mike being with Safety Services, company and folks. Today wehave a good one. I'm very excited to speak with today's guests born andraised in Colorado and at the school in Indiana and got his master's degree inenvironmental management, so proud, family man. Wife, is an engineer that we'll get into a little bit ofthat if he, if he wants to cover that a little bit but he's been in the safetyfield over thirty years, he is the corporate manager ofEnvironmental Health and safety at parallel products joined in me to dayis Mark Sutton, maybe mark how you doing this morning. Great. Thank youfor having me Mike appreciate it that it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure, I'mpretty excited and before we kind of get into the talk shop a little bithere tell an audience a little bit about yourself and what got you intothe safety field. I grew up in Colorado. I went to school at Bel, PreseUniversity for endered and then soon as I got out of school, I went to work asa chemist and ended up working for a hazards way treatment stories anddisposal facility, and I kicked off my interest in environmental, health andsafety, so observed various roles. I went on to school part time, at mymaster's degree, in environment of management at various roles and for thelast seven years I've been at parallel products as the corporates manager,Nice Nice tell us a little bit about parallel and the type of work you areare doing over there. Pelle products manages unsalable beverages. It's aunique industry. I didn't know anything about it till I interviewed with thecompany. We have six locations around the country and we receive in materialat you know the past with the landfield. This was a soda pop beer, spirits. It'seither outdated out of speck for some...

...reason, and we are two largestlocations: We ferment the sugars and make ethanol and then with the materialit contains up and now we distill it and the eth and all that comes off ofit- becomes part of the a renewable fuel. It's a oxygen for feels when yougo to the gas station at ten percent. At of all that, you get in there toreduce Knox imition on the tail pine part of it comes from us we're smallguys. We make five to six men gallons a year, but it's all from beveragematerial, some of its from pharmaceutical companies and then thepackaging is recycled and reclaimed. So the aluminum, the pet, the O C C andthe stretch up all goes back into the market M. Okay, okay and you know I'mgoing to th, throw a curve ball question. Being that your wife is anengineer who smarter you or your wife. I have to say her great answer, Nice. So so a lot of the material, alot of hazards materials you all are working with in a parallel products.Not so much hashers materials, it's beverage materials we'll bring in, forexample, or man, one of our main facilis here in Lowville, will youprocess twenty five to thirty thousand cases of material a day. They'll comein and they'll go through a strater device, they're UN packaged and thenthey go to Baylor's, and then we send the bail material out and then theliquids are sent over to our alcohol processing side. So it's not not. A lothas just material, mostly beverages, yeah, okay. Okay, also, I would like toknow this is kind of a side question. If you weren't in the safety field,what do you think you'd be doing kind of a fun question? I probably be on theopposide of it. I did operations for an environmental company for a year thatwas during the session and it was a challenging time in the company, didn'tmake it and didn't survive, but it was a lot of fun. It was on all reclamationfacility, okay, okay, nice, just to give our audience of scold of whatyou're doing out there. How many locations are you over and for seeing?We have six locations, we have one in...

...the Bronx New York, Dade City, Florida,Louville, Kentucky New Bedford, Massachusetts, Greeley, Colorado andRancho Cucamonga, California, Nice, nice and you traveling back and forwardto all those different locations. Yes, I cover all the locations. In fact herein the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be on a three week: Jont, where I'mgoing to hit the Florida Platt, the car out of Platin, the rat O co, come on aplan, Nice Nice. Can you kind of real briefly when you going out on the roadand that the location is kind of walking through with a typical day,looks like if typical at all they're different, the locations are alldifferent sizes, a couple smaller locations? We have twenty employees,the bigger ones will have ben for fifty, and then we flex with temp Labor whenwe're busy up to a hundred and fifty employees. Normally, I will coordinatewith the ops manager at each site before I go, we'll send an agenda, anagree, coupon priorities and then I'll go in and spend a lot of time on thefloor. Safety is one of those things you got to be on the floor, seeingpeople and moving forward and then we'll work through what I call it. ASafety Action Plan that I put together, it's a format. I Have A and I'll justspend time on the floor. We work on the Safety Action Plan and work with theoption manager, the maintenance manager and each location to address thingsthat we need to need to be addressed. So if there's training issues a wellput together, an action planets like anything else, we'll make a list, willprioritize the list and I'll go after him. Before my next visit, Nice, niceand you're, putting together all your action plans in house everything youall to write, not everything yourselves. Yes, Nice, nice now and when it comesto safety. In your opinion, what's a frequently hell belief that youpassionately disagree with, I don't know if it's frequently, but I don't,you know every place I've ever been throughout my career. You walk into theops manager, will tell you. Safety is my number one priority and I don'tthink it is. They have so many competing priorities and they've got alot of things going in the air. I mean it's at the very top of their list, butI think at times they're driven to productivity quality. You know thosethings kind of rotate you'll see you walk into some place and the lovesafety quality productivity, but in the real world those things are going torotate of what's going on that day and...

...they have to react to them and that'spart of their job. That's that's what they're there to do, and so, as asafety professional, you have to keep them focused on the safety part of it.So I would imagine, is there like a like a balance scene that you kind ofhave to do in terms of you know, keep an eye on the bottom line, and but youstill, you want to keep a focus on safety. Yes, you definitely have tobalance and that there are things you have to look anything else. You have tomanage the risk. As best you can know. There's we were having discussionsyesterday. We have a safety round table every Wednesday and Louisville orlocation a way, we're talking to one of the challenges, and you know it's. Wetalked about ideal state and you have you know the old lane, visual streammapping. You've got the current state future state and ideal state, but wewere talking about handling a truck and the you know the ideal state was thatway to bring a van trailor in and just not have guys go in it and a load ofthe truck where you could do it, and I saw something like that, but it's costprohibitive for us you. If to back up. Okay, we've got the ideal state, let'slook at what we can do in the future state and then we act on those and thatbecomes our new current state and let me go back and say: okay, what can wedo to make this ideal? So we get to our next future state HM. I see I see beingin the safety field. I know you run across. You know different situationsthat you may not agree with different processes. In your opinion, what shouldeverybody stop doing when it comes to safety darting a process before they doa preliminary system safety assessment a lot of times we're pushed to getthings up and going, but we have to step back. We started some newequipment in Florida this last week and we had an off manager and a VP of opsdown there and they did that they got the equipment place and then they did astep back. A top down view of you know what are the failure conditions wheresomebody can get hurt and they just walked around and spent timeidentifying those, and then they addressed them. So I think that'ssomething everybody should do just take a step back, take a deep breath and say:where can we have a potential INCEDO? Where can somebody get hurt and how arewe going to manage that risk m? Do you ever use any type of analytics at allto kind of give you data and want certain injuries and certain how to besafer on the N E in the facilities? We...

...don't do anything specific. We watchwhat's trending on incidents. Well, we're big on recording, near hits andtracking those down, because those are an indicator or something that mayhappen down the road. We don't. We have a very good safety record and so we'removing for. We don't have a lot of incidents, but we talk about what wecan do to make things cleaner, safer, easier, okay, okay, I want to switch agear a little bit in just being in the you know, pandemic era: coved did thataffect the business at all. You know it's kind of up and down, for you knoweverybody is different, but how did it affect you all over there? A parallelour business went up. We had a call last week. In fact, we get a lot of thehand sanitizer when this first came out. A lot of companies went to making handsanitizer and one able to make the speck and our sale had a seals is said.We're like the dog that caught the car down, because we were seeing a lot ofcome in in addition and everything shut down all those restaurants andfacilities that had beverage material, they cleared it out and it came to us we've been steadily moving along. Wehaven't slowed down one bit, Yeah Nice, Nice, listen, I'm still stocked up onhand in a ties around, so I know we had spoked about somethings that everyone should maybe start doing when it comes to safety. Can youkind of go over that? I know you've mentioned o the Abbey System and yesexplain that Twas Abbey stands for a bob below behind an inside and we askpeople before they do a task, especially maintenance people, but eventhe operators on here coming back to the line just take a step back. Isthere something above below behind or underneath or inside that could causean incident or cost me harm, and what do I need to do address that? I'm realbig on everybody, just taking a step back every time and saying what are thepotential risk and how am I going to manage those risks? Okay, can you giveme an example of putting that to action? Actually, in Florida this last week wehad an incident where what our...

...maintenance guys were in and they wereinstall a piece of equipment and one of them had a got a spider bite and itturned in a recordable incident. He's doing well was back to work the sameday, but I think if he had taken a step tokind of, do the bub below behind and seeing if there were spiders around youknow, and he may not have caught it yeah yeah, but just looking around.That's that's an example where it could have prevented the spider bit. I thinkabsolutely, and it sounds like it now when you mentioned a recordableincident for those are my listeners that may not know what it is arecordable incident. Can you kind of give us a little more details on thatand kind of what to do? Yeah O sure has defined it very well. They've got aguidance dockument out, but basically, when somebody requires medicalattention in this case it was beyond first aid and they have defined whatfirst date is and he was given an antibiotic. So it became an oceanrecordable. We recorded on our OCHAVO and at the end of the year, then we'llpost a log and submit the data to Osha, okay. Okay, do you have any tips? Wehave a lot of listeners at small business owners, any tips on a good wayto keep track of those recordable of doing on getting that documentation. Iwould suggest looking a DOSIA's guidance page in my experience. They'vebeen very helpful. I mean when the inspectors come in they're looking forsomething but there's another side of ocean, there's a lot of guidance outthere and you can go to their page and just on Google or do the search engineyeah or something you'll see interpretations, and as far as therecording side, they have a very good website that details. Everything thatyou need to do what's recordable what you need to keep track of on your logs.So I look at the Agency for guidance, okay, okay and that's a great tip formy listeners, been in the safety field over thirty years. I know it's a lot oftips and tricks and different methods that you may have discovered to comeacross. What's something in your opinion, if anything that everyone istrying to do that, you may be discovered a better method for I'm bigon recognizing positive behavior on you know, I'm not a safety cop per se. Idon't like to go out and find people...

...doing the wrong thing. I like going outfinding them doing the right things, and one of my big things is I hand outsmall things like little can openers or carabines and real publicly, if I'mwalking out before, and I see somebody wearing their seat belt I'll, stop anthank them for wearing their sea go and give them something if they're worryingtheir hair in protection it just publicly showing that you're supportingthem where, instead of looking for bad things and they expected to coming toplant- like all God, the safety guys here. What am I doing wrong and they'rehiding? You See Disappearing Safety Act when they see you coming and they seethat you're going to recognize him for doing the right thing and oursupervisors all talk, and I started this when I came on board and at theLouie a location I was handing out little things. I was in the Bronxlocation and probably the second day out on the floor. I'm walking aroundI'm seeing Guy Stop and look at me and smile and point at their seat Bill Hm.So you recognize positive behavior in a very public positive way, and I thinkit goes a long way. Absolutely it sounds like it. I would imagine thatthat would just create a culture where you know of safety and people nothaving a problem coming to you with certain concerns and addressing certainsituations. Yes, I'm a big fan of a book called Fifty Twenty four seven byGregory Anderson and Robert Labora. I think I'm pronouncing it right, butpart of their. What they push in the book is that you go out and youidentify risk and you get people identifying what the potential risksare when they're talking to, and you have a strong safety of culture.They'll come to you and say hey mark. I think we might be able to do somethingdifferent here to reduce the risk or we've got a risk here that we need toaddress, and you need to respond to those situations and act accordingly.I'm big on they're the resident experts. You know I walk into facility. I don'tknow everything about the process, but the person working that mine will knowway more than I am, and so you start asking questions and ask them to teach.You they'll be happy to show you and they'll be happy to provide ininformation and then, if you act on some of those their ideas and they seethem working you're going to see that snow, ball and you'll see a lot more m.okay, okay and me, you know, and in the...

...same token or on the reverse side, Iknow you've experienced some failures throughout your career. Any failuresthat you've experienced, you think a lot of safety professionals orcompanies could be headed for yeah. I think right now, especially it's timelywith the job market, we're having a tough time getting people we're.Bringing people in we've got a lot of temp labor, so there new and we're notalways holding them accountable for safe behavior, sometimes people comingon, so we try to pair them with somebody to experience and make surethey understand what the safety requirements are and why we're doingthem. That's a big proponent! Is We're not doing this because mark looks tosee people wear inhered protection, we're doing this, because I want you tobe able twenty years from now to listen to your granddaughter's Dancecard Smile,Yeah, Nice, nice speaking of just the hiring market. I know you know I'm outhere in Arizona everywhere I go, people are hiring a different fields, somebodythat wants to get into safety. Do you have any advice you can give to? Maybesomeone that's looking to get it to the safety profession yeah. We use a lot ofpromoting from a dam, so somebody shows it and then we could provide themresources. I would look at the ocean than our thirty hour course and see ifyou like it, and then there are a lot of great schools that have programs outthere. I know Indian University has one being impartial and it's actually inPennsylvania, but it's a great safety program. I've seen a lot of good peoplecome out of it. Nice Nice. I have another curve, ball question for you:men talking earlier with you no year fisherman, trout or bass drop the Nicenight. I grew up with my grandfather. Ateaching me to trop fish fly fish in Colorado. That was one of our thingsand did used to kind of irritate my mom, because even during school we wouldtake off in the evenings and not get back to Lake Nice. Maybe if I can makeit out there get away one day we can do a little fishing together, I'm not ayou know I could catch some blue gills.

I told you I make you a great Blue GillSandwich, but other than that you go I'd, love to that'd be fair to getting back your own track. Now, letme ask you this: What's a recent thing that you may have tried in the companythat you were kind of surprised by the result of a few years ago, I wasworking with the safety person from a different company and she was fantasticand she introduced me to safety poker. She called it, and I tried it weekbefore last when we were doing active shooter training and the process iswhen somebody when people are filing into the room and they're signing theroot signing in on the sin, and she we give him a card, and then I keep thedeck and as we're doing the training. Anybody that interacts with me. I givehim another card, and it's in to the meeting. Whoever's got the best pokerand get surprised, and it's not big things, sometimes there're things whereit's a nice, a pair of safety glasses and we normally issue for the companyand it generates conversation, but it gets people engaged, and then we heldtwo trainings that day and the morning session was really engaged and theywent out. They started talking about the afternoon session. They wereengaged in wanting the cards to get people talking about it, and then theyget back out on the floor back out in the office. You know and they'll askabout it. I was like go man, markis old, as poker thing, and it was funny wewere laughing about it. I was just surprised and it generated a lot ofdiscussion after the meeting, which is great for me because and it gets peoplethinking about it, yeah yeah. Are you using that at all your locations or howoften are you doing that? I just tried it two weeks ago and I'm going to takeit every place. You know, I think it's great. When I get him out there. Youknow the first time I think through it, but I think the supervisors are goingto start talking about it. I just ordered a bunch of things from Amazon.Yesterday they had out us safety prices, Nice, nice and again. You know thatkind of goes in line with what you were saying earlier about publiclyrecognizing being positive. It just brings morale up and promoting safetyusing creative ways, which is you know...

...you being innovative. So that'sdefinitely a good thing. I know we had talked about. You know someachievements, and I know you really. A team player talkedabout the the Mr Rating and I was something you were proud of. Can youkind of go over that and as something that was, you would really proud ofthat? You all had achieved. Yes, when I started a parallel, we were a littlebit north of one on our experience, modification rating and a week agoMonday we got an update from the insurance company were at point. Eighteight now- and I think, that's just being driven by working with theindividual ops managers and talking to him and focusing on really hard incident investigations.Especially here hits, you know, what can we do to fix it and we use either afive way approach or job hazard analysis and we have a lot of job as orsome analysis out there. So if we have one we'll pull it back out and reviewit and we'll get a team together, and I like getting someone that is notfamiliar with the process, I believe it was a kittering foundation processwhere they went to work on a project and they brought a group of extras tobe able experts together and then you bring someone in that doesn't know theprocess. So they can ask the obvious questions and the questions thateverybody assumes. They know the answers to yeah yeah. How long did sowith the? How long did you take to see results on that? Mr Rating? We saw itslowly drop it's a rolling three year number, and this was the first one I'veseen in a couple of years and I was real happy. Our last one was right atone, so it was a you know. Twelve percent drop in three years, which is,I think, phenomenal yeah. Absolutely now is that information that you'resharing with the with the floor and the plants to kind of use. That is heywe're doing the right thing. Do you share that information on fors? Oh yeah,our CEOS, real big on it. We have a weekly op coll and it's all the opismanagers or finance person and we're talking through a lot of the metricsthat were hitting and that you know they hit all the operational metricswhere we're doing what production is cost. But then I get my own section totalk about hs and we look at o our...

...safety cross. For the week we have toptwo EH S. items at each location and the offis managers decide what theirtop two are for that week and what they're going to do and then they talkthrough that and then we'll review our data to month, and I talk about that- Ihave a little section where I get on a little soap box each. We can take guysearlier this week year, it's starting to get warm. Let's really think hardabout me, keeping everybody hydrated and managing the heat, an the ristassociated with it, and when I got that that one day that next Wednesday thatwas my first topic is like all the hard work we're doing. This is affecting usand for the OPS guise. This affects your bottom line, m yeah. Absolutely,and you know, speaking of it getting warm. I know we got the holiday comingup this weekend during holidays. Like the fourth, do you ever see s focus onthat a little more, does there's a spike in injuries or does anythingchange at all? We haven't seen it. We talk about it when people come backfrom holidays or during the late season. You know Thanksgiving through December.I emphasize a lot that people are going to be distracted, they're thinkingabout other things, and so it's important when we have our morningmeetings. You know that you look around. The supervisors have a they come in andLowville come in in before he chipped. They do some exercise and stretchingexercises and look around and look and see. If people are really engaged youcan see, you know somebody's kind of maybe out of sorts and you pull themaside, say: Everything's, okay, yeah, it's maybe they're worried aboutfinances during the holidays and say, let's you know make sure we stayfocused here on this well we're here. You got any big plans for the weekend,I'm going to Lake Monro and hopefully doing some fishing for a couple days.Nis Nice, you have mentioned one of your hobbies with the Indie car talkabout that a little bit and yeah. When I moved Indianapolis when I first gotout of college, I went to the race and just fell EMU with the series andpretty much have been to every indie five hundred, except for a couple sincethe mid S. friends and I got into it my son and I got into it- We've been totwo races this year and then my son. I started a tradition three years ago,where we go to the last race of the...

...season to follow Sun weekend. Yeah Nice,Nice, Nice. I can imagine, that's something and he could pass on. Youknow if he had sons down the road and it could be a generational thing:family generational thing that you know a tradition, that's nice! I like that-and I know when you do get those times to you know, go to the races and youknow you know fishing and gives you a little bit to unwind and you know kindof get your mind off the safety right. Yeah Yeah. Do you find yourself punquestion when you're out fishing? Do you find yourself steal being supersafety conscious or yeah you're? Always thinking about I like to think in termsof managing the risks yeah, you know you look around or what are thepotential risk and how I can control those. My son I like to go out kayaks alot so we're just small little boats and we're into the coves, so we'realways watching for the larger boats coming around us in the wakes and itjust managing the risk when you're on the water, Yeah Yeah Nice, listen, I'man avid out outdoorsmen every day, it's a battle getting from the building tomy car and that's a bales et. But I I like to ask the guests: I know youknow you've seen a lot. You know probably some tough incidents andaccidents on the job. Can you give us a story of you know? Maybe a bad accidentout here. Just to kind of. Let us know that hey things can happen, accidentshappen, that's why they cared accidents. You got a story for US yeah about fouryears ago. We were starting up our Colorado facility when we were bringingequipment in and we were setting it up and unfortunately we had a young manthat lost part of his toe. He was a maintenance person in training and theywere working on the conveyor that fed the bailor and the matene person was onone side. They had an issue with it and he was trying to get the conveyor goingand they locked out to convey or but they failed to step back and say whatelse do we need to do and they didn't lock out the bailor. The young guycouldn't see what the senior person was...

...showing him, and so he went around tothe other side and he kind of climbed up on top of the bailor and when he didsomehow they started the bailer when it started its down stroke. There weresome hooks on it that are used to pull the bales out his toe got caught underthat Hook. Is it lowered down and push down? He was able to pull hisfoot out, but it caught it right. On the end of the steel to and amputatedpart of his big toe, it was pretty scary. I got the call I happened on aMonday. I flew out to Colorado that night we went with to shift the end ofthe week as part of our investigation and got down to the root causes. Therewere multi root, causes on this one, an the they didn't lock out the secondpiece of equipment, and we needed a guard there. So wefabricated a guard around the hook so that it couldn't happen again and wedid some training employees never go out to get hurt. This is a case wherethis person was trying to do something and learn something, and so nobody evergoes out to get hurt. You try to make fail safe conditions and they're goingto happen, and this was horrenous. It just is the worst incident I've everencountered and it was a challenge. Then, a week, though, we had correctIvans in place and that we raised awareness throughout the company andthen I went out to all the other sites looking for similar type of situationswhere we have to implement potential fail, safe issues, yeah yeah. Now, whenthe injury like that happens, what's your the very first step that you do,that you have to do, take care of them and play the first thing we want to dois take care of the person and make sure they're doing well. You know if weneed medical attention, get a medical attention immediately and then once weget the employe taken care of well preserve the scene and then start ourinstint investigation. In this case it was a reportable to Osha. Our incidentreporting program out outlies eight steps for the OX managers as far asreporting and the first one is the they typically call me when they have oneright away and so got a Istry report coming your way, and they talk methrough it on. If we need to report it yeah are you as far as like reportingand procedures? Do you write a lot of the stuff up yourself or do you findother sources to give materials from,...

...and I like to write a lot of the stuffup myself, I mean none of it's original. I go look and see for best practicesand you'll, see people who have the bench marks and plagiarizes copy theirstuff. I don't feel any shame about it, because if it's something that's goingto make our people safe and I'm not violating and copyright laws- and thereare a lot of safety professionals that are more than willing to share withyour best practices. Absolutely absolutely- and you know that comesfrom when you have when you have a safety community, that you could leanon. You know, in my opinion, there is no plagiarism because we are sharinginformation, it's a safety community. So that's what I like about this andjust trying to build a safety community to where you know we can lean on eachother and use each other as resources. Can you kind of when you have a injurylike that for a lot of my listeners that may not have had any contact withOsa? Can you kind of give us some tips on? You know Havelis and an inspectionor injury and kind of what to do. Certainly first thing is be truthfulreport. What you've got and when they come in they've got a goal there. Therewant to make things safer, texter goal when they come in on an sit like thisthey're focused on a certain scope and when they come in, you want to keepthem focused on the scope and not let them wander around the Plat. If theycome in for a specific complaint, do you want to stay focused on thecomplaint itself, but then talk with them a lot of times? I mean these guyshave seen a lot more facilities in Oliver Sea and they'll have suggestionsand guidance and you'll work through the corrective actions. It's importantthat you respond immediately, even if there's a small violation or an issue.You know we've had cases before where oceans come in they're walking around,and somebody had swapped out a propane cylinder on a fork truck and instead ofputting back in the cage and set it down and the ocean spectrin that as acue, let's get that in and then you know within a day or so we send them.Here's our corrective action and we had a training session on this issue, butanything you can correct as quickly as possible. They appreciate it. Sometimesit never ends up in a citation if you corrected it and showing that you'vegot a good preventative action in place...

...to prevent it from happening again.Okay- and I appreciate you saying that a lot of times it's easy, you know fora lot of small business owners of business owners in general, just tothink that Oseas, the bad guy and that they're out to get you you know. So,just knowing that you know you know you can do corrective measures and theyhave a little a lot of Le Winter, just not out to sting you. You know thatkind of builds a culture within each individual business to safety andpromote in safety right and like how you're doing with the positive publicpositive. You know you giving out things you're, building that thatculture of Hey, you know the safety guys here. A lot of people hate safety,guys, you know its March here, and you know it's a great thing. So it's funnyit all goes hand in hand, but I appreciate you sharing that with this,you know, tips on how to deal with those she walking to Stewart injurybefore we get out of here. Anything any messages. Anything you want to. Let myaudience know anything. You want to convey talk about parallel. I think thebiggest thing is managing risks and getting people involved. We work inindustry. You cannot eliminate them they're going to be there. The riskexists everywhere in the world, even in your personal life, and so you look atit and say: How can I manage this risk and you look at the hierarchy? Can wedo in engineering control? If we can't do in engineering control? Can we dosome other kind of thing where we've created guarding or distance andgetting people involved? What the more pop you get people involved there morethey're going to get on board with you. If you dictate down and walk out, saywe had this accident. This is what we're going to do. People are going tostep back, but if you walk out, ask people hey. We have this incident. Howcan we make this better? How can we prevent this rapid and we wanteverybody to go home exactly the same way? They came to work that day andwhen you get people involved in talking to you and helping you and you're goingto learn things too. I have some of the best things we get are from theresident experts, the people actually working on the floors, and I thinksometimes, managers get away from that and they think because they're educatedor they're bit in the role they know what's right and you need to listen topeople, because I, quite frankly, the...

...guys on the floor and know a hell a lotmore than I know about the process and they're willing to tell me and to helpme do my job to make it safer for them: m, Nice, nice and and Neen one moretime, the book that you mentioned. What was the name of that book again for mylisteners and it's safety? Twenty four, seven building an incident free culture?Okay, it's a short read. We had a VP come on board three years ago and I hadevery new supervisor every new manager of the book, even in our finance scriptoday. This is how we want to live in our company. He read it and one night,it's a short read came back, so this is great at our weekly round table we'regoing to have a book club down and he assigned a chapter each one of hissupervisors and their job was next week to come in and talk about the chapterthey were at and so get them interacting and it actually generated abuzz. A first came out. You know some go rap. We got to read the Damn Bookand talk about it for that's great, but when they got into it because this bookflows it tells a story, it's not the hard side of safety. It's the soft side.You've got the hard side of the regulations. You have to comply with it,but the soft side gets. You there it's the people that get you there m nice.Well, folks, there you have it mark sudden. It was a pleasure. I appreciateyour giving us your time. I know you're busy out there. Thank you for joiningUS mark again. It was a pleasure. I can't I can't say enough how I wasexcited. I was to speak to you and talk about it. You gave us some greatinformation in. Thank you for your time. Mark sudden parallel products mark youwant to say hi to the misses before we before we get out of here or sit thekids at all I'll give them a interest, see a a, but thank you for the time toappreciate the opportunity to be on show. This is fantastic. I reallyenjoyed it and have a safe and happy fourth of July. Thank you mark andlisten any time. You know we can schedule something again, but we'lltalk off the record, but but yeah any time. It was a pleasure. I'm going toadd you to my contact. You know there may be times I may reach out to ask youquestions. So I appreciate it and the...

...opportunity to get to know you folks.Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Safety Management Showagain, I'm your host Mike Dean with Safety Services, company and until nexttime, stay safe in need of a blue print for workplacesafety and Compliance Safety Services. Company is North America's leadingprovider of safety, training and compliant solutions. We supply customsafety, manials and policies and on sight and online training solutionsthat will enhance the safety of your workplace and our compliance serviceswill save you time and resources guaranteeing peace of mind witheighteen years in the industry we have a proven track record of helpingcustomers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customizesolutions that fit the unique needs of each business to learn more had theSafety Services Company, thanks for listening to the safetymanagement, show to hear more stories from safety leaders subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us arating until next time stay safe, T.

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