The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 9 · 1 year ago

Navigating the Process of Recordable Incidents w/ Mark Sutton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Risks exist everywhere and unfortunately you cannot eliminate them all. As a result, the most important thing to learn to do is to better respond to recordable incidents and train your employees to avoid them in the future.

In this episode, Mark Sutton , Corporate Manager - Environmental Health and Safety at Parallel Products, shares the tips and tricks he has learned for improving safety within an organization.

We discuss:

  • Keeping operations managers focused on safety
  • How to approach recordable incidents
  • Tips and tricks to improve safety
  • Steps for responding to a safety incident

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

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You're listening to the safety management show. We're safety professional share engaging stories about their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learned along the way. Let's dig in. Thank you for joining the Safety Management Show. I am your host, Mike Dean, with Safety Services Company, and folks, today we have a good one. I'm very excited to speak with today's guests. Born and raised in Colorado and put the school in Indiana and I got his master's degree and environmental management. Proud family man. Wife is an engineer and we'll get into a little bit of that if he if he wants to cover that a little bit. But he's been in the safety field over thirty years. He is the corporate manager of environmental, health is safety at parallel products. Joining me today is Mark Sutton. May Mark, how you doing this morning? Great? Thank you for having me. I can appreciate it that it's a pleasure. Is a pleasure. I'm pretty excited and before we kind of get into the talk, shop a little bit here to my audience. A little bit about yourself and we'll got you into the safety field. I grew up in Colorado. I went to school at I'll praisy university front of Grad and then, since I got out of school, I went to work as a chemist and ended up working for a Houz your swaste treatment stories and disposal facility, and I kicked off my interest in environment, our health and safety. So I've served various roles. I went on to school part time at my master's degree environmental management. Had various roles and for the last seven years I've been at parallel products as the corporate dhs manager. Nice Nice, tell us a little bit about a parallel and the type of work you want are doing over there. Parallel products manages unsalable beverages. It's a unique industry. I didn't know anything about it till I interviewed with the company. We have six locations around the country and we receive in material at you know, in the past went to landfills. This was a soda, pop, beer spirits. It's either outdated out of speck for some reason, and we...

...are too largest locations. We ferment the sugars and make ethanol and then with the material that contains eth and all we distill it and the Ethan all that comes off of it becomes part of the renewable fuel. It's a oxygen net for fuels when you go to the gas station at ten percent ethanol that you get in there to reduce knocks and missions of the tailpipe. Part of it comes from us. We're small guys. We make five to six million gallons a year, but it's all from beverage material some of it's from pharmaceutical companies and then the packaging is recycled and reclaimed. So the aluminum, the pet, the OCC and the stretching up all goes back into the market. HMM. Okay, okay, and you know I'm going to throw a throw a curveball question being at your wife is an engineer. Who Smart are you or your wife? I'd have to say her great asser Nice. So so, a lot of the material, a lot of hazards materials you are working with and a parallel products. Not so much has this materials? It's beverage materials. Will bring in, for example, or Maine, one of our main facilitiyor in Louisville. Will you process twenty five to thirty thousand cases of material a day? They'll come in and they'll go through a shredder device, they're unpackaged and then they go to Baylor's and then we send the bail material out and the liquids are sent over to our alcohol processing side. So it's not not a lot of hazards material, mostly beverages. Yeah, okay, okay. Also, I would like to know, this is kind of a side question, if you weren't in the safety feel what do you think you'd be doing? Kind of a fun question. I probably be on the oppside of it. I did operations for an environmental company for a year. That was during the session and it was a challenging time in the company. Didn't make it and didn't survive, but it was a lot of fun. It was an oil reclamation facility. Okay, okay, nice. Just to give our audience a skull of what you're doing out there. How many locations are you over and for seeing? We have six locations. We have one in the...

Bronx, New York, Day City, Florida, Louisville, Kentucky, New Bedford, Massachusetts, greenly Colorado and Rancho Cucamonga, California. Nice. Nice, and you're traveling back and forth to all those different locations. Yes, I cover all the locations on tact here. In the next couple weeks I'm going to be on a threeweek jount where I'm going to hit the Florida plant to call out a Plat in the round to cook him on a plan Nice Nice. Can you kind of real briefly when you go on on the road and at the location is kind of walk us through what a typical day looks like, if typical at all? They're different. The locations are all different sizes. A couple smaller locations we have twenty employees. The bigger ones will have forty to fifty and then we flex with temp Labor when we're busy, up to a hundred and fifty employees. Normally I will coordinate with the AFS manager each site before I go. We'll sit an agenda and agree or comp upon priorities and then I'll go in and spend a lot of time on the floor. Safety is one of those things you got to be on the floor seeing people and moving forward, and then we'll work through what I caught the Safety Action Plan that I put together. It's a format I have and I'll just spend time on the floor or work on the Safety Action Plan and work with the OPS manager and the maintenance manager each location to address things that we need think need to be addressed, or if there's training issues, and we'll put together in action plan. It's like anything else. Will make a list, will prioritize the list and then we'll go after him. Before my next visit Nice, nice, and you're putting together all your action plans in house. Everything you are right now, everything yourselves. And yes, Nice, nice now. And when it comes to safety, in your opinion was so frequently hail, believe that you passionately disagree with I don't know if it's frequently, but I don't you know, every place I've ever been and throughout my career, you walk into the ops manager will tell you safety is my number one priority and I don't think it is. They have so many competing priorities and they've got a lot of things going in the air. It's at the very top with their list, but I think at times they're driven to productivity quality. You know, those things kind of rotate. You'll see you walk into some place in the have safety, quality, productivity, but in the real world those things are going to rotate on what's going on that day and...

...they have to react to them and that's part of their job. That's that's what they're there to do, and so it's a safety professional. You have to keep them focused on the safety part of it. So I'm going to imagine. Is there like a like a balancing that's you kind of have to do in terms of, you know, keep an eye on the bottom line and but you steal you want to keep a focus on safety. Yes, you definitely have to balance and there are things you have to like anything else, you have to manage the risk as best you can. O There's we were having discussions yesterday. We have a safety round table every Wednesday and Louisville at our location, and when we're talking through one of the challenges, and you know it's we talked about ideal state and you have, you know, the old lane visual stream mapping. You've got the current state, future state and ideal state and we were talking about handling a truck and the you know, the ideal state was a way to bring a van trailer in and just not have guys going in and a load the truck. Where you could do it. I saw something like that, but it's cost prohibited for us to back up. Okay, we've got the ideal state. Let's look at what we can do in the future state and then we act on those and that becomes our new current state and let me go back and sell. Okay, what can we do to make this ideal so we can get to our next future state? M I see. I see being in the safety feel I know you run across, you know, different situations that you may not agree with, different processes. In your opinion, we should everybody stop doing when it comes to safety, darting a process before they do a preliminary system safety assessment. A lot of times we're pushed to get things up and going, but we have to step back. We started some new equipment and Florida this last week and we had an option manager and a VP of ops down there and they did that. They got the equipment place and then they did a step back, a top down view of you know, what are the failure conditions were somebody can get hurt and they just walked around and spent time identifying those and then they address them. So I think that's something everybody should do. Just take a step back, take a deep breath and say where can we have a potential incident or working somebody get hurt and how are we going to manage that risk? HMM. Do you ever use any type of analytics at all to kind of give you data and on a certain injuries and certain how to be safer? On the on the in the facilities, we don't...

...do anything specific. We watch what's trending on incidence. While we're big on reporting near hits and tracking those down because those are an indicator or something that may happen down the road, we don't. We have a very good safety record and so we're moving forward. We don't have a lot of incidents, but we talked about what we can do to make things cleaner, safer easier. Okay, okay, I want to switch a gear a little bit and just being in the you know pandemic era, covid. Did that affect the business at all? I know it's kind of up and down for you know, everybody is different, but how did it affect you all over there? Parallel, our business went up. We had a call last week. In fact, we get a lot of the hand sanitizers. When this first came out, a lot of companies went to making hand sanitizers and we're able to make the speck and our sale head of sales is said we're like the dog that caught the car down, because we're seeing a lot of come in in additionally, and everything shut down, all those restaurants and facilities that had beverage material it. They cleared it out and it came to us. We've been steadily moving along. We haven't slowed down one bit. Yeah, Nice, nice listen. I'm steel stocked up on hand sanitizer. So I know we has spoken about some things that everyone should maybe start doing when it comes to safety. Can you kind of go over that? I know you have mentioned that the Abbey System, and yes, it's plain that to us. Abbey stands for a bub below behind it inside, and we asked people before they do a task, especially maintenance people, but even the operators when they're coming back to the line, just take a step back if there's something above, below, behind or underneath the or inside that could cause an incident or cost me harm, and what do I need to do address that? I'm real big on everybody just taking a step back every time and saying what are the potential risk and how am I going to manage those risks? Okay, okay, you give me an example of putting that to action. Actually in Florida this last week we had an incident where were our maintenance guys were in and...

...they were install a piece of equipment and one of them how to, got a spider bite and it turned into a recordable incident. He's doing well. Was Back to work the same day, but I think if he had taken the step to kind of do the above below behind and seeing if there were spiders around, you know, and he may not have caught it. Yeah, but just looking around, that's that's an example where I could have prevented the spider bite. I think absolutely, and it sounds like it. Now we mention a recordable incident. For those of my listeners that may not know what is recordable incident, can you kind of give us a little more details on that and kind of what to do? Yeah, Ohsher has defined it very well. They've got a guidance document out, but basically when somebody requires medical attention, in this case it was beyond first aid and they have defined what first aid is and he was given an antibiotic. So it became an ocean recordable. We recorded on our oceal log and at the end of the year. Then we'll post a log and submit the data show. Okay, okay. Do you have any tips? We have a lot of listeners at small business owners. Any tips on a good way to keep track of those recordables and doing a getting that documentation? I would suggest looking to Noceh's guidance page. In my experience they've been very helpful. I mean when the inspectors come in there looking for something. But there's another side of ocean. There's a lot of guidance out there and you can go to their page and just Google urt's do the search engine. Yeah, for something, you'll see interpretations and as far as the recording side, they have a very good website that details everything that you need to do, what's recordable, what you need to keep dry of on your logs. So I look at the Agency for guidance. Okay, okay, and that's a great tip for my listeners. Been in the safety field over thirty years. I know it's a lot of tips and trace and different methods that you may have discovered to come across with something in your opinion, if anything, that everyone is trying to do, that you may be discovered a better method for I'm big on recognizing positive behavior. And you know, I'm not a safety cop per se. I don't like...

...to go out and find people doing the wrong thing. I like going out and finding them doing the right things. And one of my big things as I hand out small things like little can openers or carabineers and real publicly, if I'm walk out before and I see somebody wearing their seatbelt, I'll stop them and thank them for wearing their seatbelt and give them something or if they're wearing their hearing protection. It just publicly showing that you're supporting them where instead of looking for bad things. And they expect you to come into plant like all God in the safety guys here, what am I doing wrong? And they're hiding. You see disappearing safety acts when they see you coming and they see that you're going to recognize him for doing the right thing. And our supervisors are all talk and I started this when I came on board and at the Louisville Location I was handing out little things. I was in the Bronx location and probably the second day out in the floor, I'm walking around. I'm seeing guys stop and look at me and smile and point at their seat built. Hmmm. So you recognize positive behavior in a very public, positive way and I think it goes a long way. Absolutely, and it sounds like it. I would imagine that that would just create a culture where you know of safety and people not having a problem coming to you with certain concerns and addressing certain situations. Yes, I'm a big fan of a book called Safety Seven by Gregory Anderson and Robert Larbora. I think I'm pronouncing it right, but part of their what they push in the book is that you go out and you identify risk and you get people identifying what the potential risks are when they're talking to and you have a strong safety of culture and they'll come to you and say, Hey, mark, I think we might be able to do something different here to reduce the risk, or we've got a risk here that we need to address, and you need to respond in those situations and act accordingly. I'm big on there the resident experts. You know, I walk into facility, I don't know everything about the process, but the person working that line will know way more than I do, and so you start asking questions and ask them to teach you. They'll be happy to show you and they'll be happy to provide in information and then if you act on some of those their ideas and they see them working, you're going to see that snowball and you'll see a lot more of MMM. Okay, okay,...

Amen. You know, in in the same token or on a reverse side, I know you've experienced some failures throughout your career. Any failures that you've experienced, you think a lot of safety professionals or companies could be headed for. Yeah, I think right now especially, it's timely with the job market, we're having a tough time getting people. We're bringing people in. We've got a lot of temp labors, are new and we're not always holding them accountable for safe behavior. Sometimes people come in and so we try to pair them with somebody's experience and make sure they understand what the safety requirements are and why we're doing that's a big proponent is. We're not doing this because mark likes to see people wearing hair protection. We're doing this because I want you to be able, twenty years from now to listen to your granddaughter's dance recital and smile. Yeah, Nice, Nice. Speaking of just the hiring market, I know you know I'm out here in Arizona. Everywhere I go people are hiring different fields. Somebody that wants to get it to safety. Do you have any advice you can give to maybe someone is looking to get it to the safety profession? Yeah, we use a lot of promoting from within. So if somebody shows it and then we can provide them resources. I would look at the ocean town, our thirty hour course and see if you like it. And then there are a lot of great schools that have programs out there. I Know Indiana University has one. Being impartial and it's actually in Pennsylvania, but it's a great safety program I've seen a lot of good people come out of it. Nice. Nice. I have a another curveball question for you. Man. Talking earlier with you know your fishermen trout or Bass, trout and Nice night. I grew up with my grandfather teaching me to trout fish fly fish in Colorado. That was one of our things and used to kind of irritate my mom because even during school we would take off in the evenings not get back till late. Nice. Maybe if I can make it out there your way one day we can blow fishing together. I'm...

...not a you know, I could catch some blue gills. I told you, I make you a great blue Gheel Sandwich, but other than that, you I'd love to that Wou'd be fair down getting back your own track. And now let me ask you this. What's a recent thing that you may have tried in the company that you were kind of surprised by the result of? A few years ago I was working with the safety person from a different company and she was fantastic and she introduced me to a safety poker, she called it, and I tried it week before last thing. We were doing active shooter training and the process is when somebody, when people are filing into the room and they're signing the route, signing in on the sign and sheet, we give them a card and then I keep the deck and as we're doing the training, anybody that interacts with me, I give him another card and it's into the meeting. Whoever's got the best poker hand gets a prize, and it's not big things. Sometimes there are things where it's a nicer pair of safety glasses and we normally issue for the company and it generates conversation, but it gets people engaged and then we held two trainings that day. In the morning session was really engaged and they went out they started talking about the afternoon session. They were engaged in wanting the card. So you get people talking about it and then they get back out on the floor, back out in the office, you know, and they'll ask about it. It's like all man Marcus holding this poker thing and it was funny. We were laughing about it. I was just surprised and it generated a lot of discussion after the meeting, which is great for me because then it gets people thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, how are you using that at all your locations or how often are you doing that? I just tried it two weeks ago and I'm going to take it every place. Yeah, I think it's great. When I get him out there, you know, the first time I think through it, but I think the supervisors are going to start talking about it. I just ordered a bunch of things from Amazon yesterday. They had out of safety prices. Nice, Nice, and again. You know, that kind of goes in line with what you were saying earlier about publicly recognizing being a positive. It just brings morale up and promoting safety using creative ways, which is you know you being innovative, so as definitely a good...

...thing. Now I know we it's talked about. You know some achievements and I know you're really a team player. Talked about the emr rating and I was something you are proud of. Can you kind of go over that and as something that was you would really proud of that you are that achieved. Yes, when I started a parallel we were a little bit north of one on our experience modification rating and we could go. Monday we got an update from the Insurance Company and we're at point eight eight now and I think that's just being driven by working with the individual obs managers and talking to them and focusing on really hard incident investigations, especially near hits. You know what can we do to fix it, and we use either a five Wye approach or job has our analysis and we have a lot of job hazers and analysis out there. So if we have on we'll pull it back out and review it and we'll get a team together and I like getting someone that is not familiar with the process. I believe it was a ketterine foundation process where they went to work on a project and they brought a group of extras to be experts together and then you bring someone in that doesn't know the process so they can ask the obvious questions or the questions that everybody assumes they know the answers to. Yeah, yeah, how long did so with the how long did it take to see results on that Mr Rating? We saw it slowly drop. It's a rowing three year number and this was the first thing I've seen in a couple of years and I was real happy. Our last one was right at one. So it was a twelve percent drop in three years, which is, I think, phenomenal. Yeah, absolutely. Now, is that information that your share with the with the floor and in the plants to kind of use that is, hey, we're doing the right thing. Do you share that information on floors? Oh yeah, our CEO's real big on it. We have a weekly ops call and it's all the OPS managers, are finance person and we're talking through a lot of the metrics that were hitting and that you know. They hit all the operational metrics where we're doing more production, is cost. But then I get my own section to talk about EHS and we look at our safety cross for the week. We have top to...

...ehs items at each location and the OPS managers decide what their top two are for that week and what they're going to do and then they talk through that and then we'll review our data too month and I talked about that. I have a little section where I get on a little soapbox each we can say, guys, earlier this way, you're it's starting to get warm. Let's really think hard about me keeping everybody hydrated and managing the heat the risk associated with it. And when I got that that Monday, that next Wednesday, that was my first topics, like all the hard work we're doing, this is effecting us and for the ops guys, this affects your bottom line. HMM. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, speaking of a getting warm, I know we got the holiday coming up this weekend. During holidays like the four the year, ever, the focus on that a little more. Does there as a spike in injuries or does anything change at all? We haven't seen it. We talked about it when people come back from holidays or during the late season, you know, thanksgiving through December. I emphasize a lot that people are going to be distracted, they're thinking about other things, and so it's important when we have our morning meetings. You know that. You look around. The supervisors have them. They come in and Louisville they come in and before he shift they do some exercises, stretching exercises, and look around and look and see if people are really engaged. You can see, you know, if somebody's kind of maybe out of sorts and you pull them asides. Hey, everything's okay? Yeah, it's. Maybe they're worried about finances during the holidays and say let's, you know, make sure we stay focused here on this while we're here. HMM. You got any big plans for the weekend? I'm going to Lake Monroe and hopefully doing some fishing for a couple days. Nice. Nice. You had mentioned one of your hobbies with the Indie car. Talk about that a little bit. And Yeah, when I moved Indianapolis when I first got out of college, I went to the race and just fell them off with the series. Pretty much have been to every indy five hundred except for a couple since the mid S. friends and I got into it. My son and I got into it. We've been to two races this year and then my son and I started to tradition three years ago where we go to the last race of the season, the father son weekend. Yeah, Nice, Nice, Nice. I can...

...imagine that's something that he could pass on, you know, if he has sons down the road and I could be a generational being family generational theme that, you know, a tradition. That's nice. I like that and I know when you do get those times to you know, go to the races and you know, then you know fishing and gives you a little bit to unwind and you know, kind of get your mind off the safety right. Yeah, do you find yourself fun question when you're out fishing? Do you find yourself steal being super safety conscious or yeah, you're always thinking about I like to think in terms of managing the risks. Yeah, you know, you look around or one of the potential risks and how I can control us. My son I like to go out kayaks A lot, so we're small little boats and we're into the coves, so we're always watching for the larger boats coming around us in the wakes and it just managing the risk when you're out on the water. Yeah, yeah, Nice. Listen, I'm an avid out outdoorsmen. Every day it's a battle getting from the building to my car and that's a bad it is eat but I like to ask the guess. I know you know you've seen a lot. You know probably some tough incidents and accidents on the job. Can you give us a story of, you know, maybe a bad accident out there, just to kind of let us know the hey fiens can happen. Accidents Happen. That's why the card accidents. You got a story for us? Yeah, about four years ago we were starting up our Colorado facility, when we were bringing equipment in and we were setting it up and unfortunately we had a young man that lost part of his toe. He was a maintenance person in training and they were working on the conveyor that fed the bailer and maintenance person was on one side. They had an issue with it and he was trying to get the conveyor going and they locked out the conveyor, but they failed to step back and say what else do we need to do and they didn't lock out the bailor. The young guy couldn't see what the senior person was showing him and so he...

...went around to the other side and he kind of climbed up on top of the bailer and when he did, somehow they started the bailor when it started its downstroke. There were some hooks on it that are used to pull the bails out. His Toe got caught under that Hook. Is it lower down? MMM? And push down. He was able to pull his foot out, but it caught it right on the end of the steel toe and amputated part of his big toe. It was pretty scary. I got the call. It happened on a Monday. I flew out the Colorado that night. We met with those shift the end of the week as part of ound instigation and got down to the root causes. There were multile root causes on this one of the they didn't lock out the second piece of equipment and we needed a guard there. So we fabricated a guard around the hook so that it couldn't happen again and we did some training. Employees never go out to get hurt. This is a case where this person was trying to do something and learn something, and so nobody ever goes out to get hurt. You you try to make failsafe conditions and they're going to happen and this was horrendous. It just the worst is in it I've ever encountered and it was a challenge. Then, a week though, we had corrective actions in place and then we raised awareness throughout the company and then I went out to all the other sites looking for similar type of situations where we have to implement potential fail safe issues. Yeah, now, when they is really like that happen, is what's you're the very first step that you do that you have to do, take care of the employee. The first thing we want to do is take care of the person and make sure they're doing well. If we need medical attension, get a medical attention immediately and then, once we get the employee taking care of, will preserve the scene and then start our instant investigation. And this case it was a reportable to Oshana. Are Incident reporting program out outlies eight steps for the option managers as far as reporting, and the first one is they they typically call me when they have one right away, and so I've got an instant report coming your way and they talked me through it on if we need to report it. Yeah, are you as far as like reporting and procedures, do you write a lot of the stuff of yourself, or do you find other sources to get material from. I like the...

...right a lot of the stuff up myself, I mean none of its original and go out look and see for best practices and you'll see people who have the benchmarks and plagiaris copy their stuff. I don't feel any shame about it because if it's something that's going to make our people safe and I'm not violating and copyright laws, and there are a lot of safety professionals and more than willing to share with your best practices. Absolutely, absolutely, and you know that comes from when you have when you have a safety community that you could lean on. You know, in my opinion, there is no plagiarism because we are sharing information. It's a safety community. So that's what I like about this and just trying to build a safety community to where, you know, we can lean on each other and use each other as resources. Can you kind of when you have injury like that, for a lot of my listeners that may not have had any contact with Oshan, can you kind of give us some tips on, you know, hand a lean Ocehan and an inspection or injury and kind of what to do? Certainly first thing is be truthful, report what you've got and when they come in, they've got a goal there. They're want to make things safer. That's our goal. When they come in on answer it like this. They're focused on a certain scope and when they come in you want to keep them focused on the scope and not let him wander around the plan. If they come in front of specific complaint, do you want to stay focused on the complain itself, but then talk with them a lot of times, I mean, these guys have seen a lot more facilities and all ever see and they'll have suggestions and guidance and you'll work through the corrective actions. It's important that you respond immediately, even if there's a small violation or an issue. We've had cases before where ocean's come in there walking around and somebody had swapped out of propane cylinder and a fork truck instead of putting back in the cage and set it down and the Ocean Spector point that it's a clear let's get that in and then you know, within a day or so we send them here's our corrective action and we had a training session on this issue. But anything you can correct as quickly as possible they appreciate it. Sometimes it never ends up in a citation if you corrected it and shown that you've got a good preventive action in place to...

...prevent it from happening again. Okay, and I appreciate you saying that. A lot of times is easy, you know, for a lot of small business owners, are business owners in general, just to think that Oh, she is the bad guy and that they're out to get you, you know. So just knowing that, you know, you know you could do corrective measures and they have a little, a lot of leewinner just not out to steam you. You know, that kind of builds a culture within each individual business to safety and promote his safety right and like how you're doing with the the positive public positive you know, you giving out things, you're building that that culture of Hey, you know the safety guys here. A lot of people had safety guys here. Knows March here, and you know it's a great thing. So it's funny. It all goes hand in hand, but I appreciate you sharing that with this, you know, and tips on how to deal with those Sha walking the stool injury. Before we get out of here. Anything, any messages? Anything you want to let my audience the snow anything you want to convey talk about parallel. I think the biggest thing is managing risks and getting people involved. We work in industry. You cannot eliminate them. They're going to be there. The risks exist everywhere in the world, even in your personal life, and so you look at it and say how can I manage this risk and you look at the hierarchy. Can we do an engineering control? If it can't do an engineering control, can we do some other kind of thing where we've created guarding or distance and getting people involved, or the more pep you get people involved, are more they're going to get on board with you. If you dictate down and walk out say we had this accident, this is what we're going to do, people are going to step back. But if you walk out ask people, Hey, we had this incident, how can we make this better? How can we prevent this for happening? And we want everybody to go home exactly the same way they came to work that day. And when you get people involved and talking to you and helping you and you're going to learn things to I have some of the best things we get are from the resident experts, the people actually working on the floors. I think sometimes managers get away from that and they think because they're educated or they're been in the role, they know what's right. And you need to listen to people because, quite frankly,...

...the guys on the floor and know a hell lot more than I know about the process and they're willing to tell me and help me do my job to make it safer for them. MMM, Nice, nice, and and the and one more time, the book that you mentioned. What was the name of that book again from our listeners and made's safety seven, building an incident free culture. Okay, it's a short read. We had a VP come on board three years ago and I hand every new supervisor, every new manager, of the book, even in our finance groom. Sad, Hey, this is how we want to live in our company. He read it and one night, it's a short read, came back to this is great and our weekly round table. We're going to have a book club down. He assigned a chapter each one of his supervisors and their job was next week to come in and talk about the chapter they read and so get them interacting and and it actually generated a buzz. First came out. You know, somewhere I go we got to read the Damn Book and Talk About for you it's great, but when they got into it, because this book flows, it tells the story. It's not the hard side of safety. That's the soft side. You've got the hard side, the regulations, you have to comply with it, but the soft side gets you there. It's the people that get you there. Hmmm, Nice. Well, folks, there you have it. Mark Sudden, it was a pleasure. I appreciate you given us your time. I know you're busy out there. Thank you for joining us, Mark Again, it was a pleasure. I can't I can't say enough how I'll excited I was a speak to you and talk about it. You gave us some great information gain. Thank you for your time, Mark Sudden. Parallel products. Mark, you want to say hi to the misses before we before we got out of here? The shity kids at all? I'll give them anything. I'll see it, probably, but thank you for the time. I appreciate the opportunity to be on show. This is fantastic. I really enjoyed it and have a safe and happy fourth of July. Thank you, mark, and listen anytime. You know we can schedule something again, but we'll talk off the record, but but yeah, anytime. It was a pleasure. I'm going to add you to my contact and you know, there may be times I may reach out to ask you question. So...

I appreciate it and the opportunity to get you know you folks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Safety Management Show. Again, I'm your host, Mike Deane, with Safety Services Company, and until next time, stay safe. In need of a blueprint for workplace safety and compliance, Safety Services Company is North America's leading provider of Safety Training and compliant solutions. We supply custom safety manuals and policies and onsite and online training solutions that will enhance the safety of your workplace, and our compliance services will save you time and resources, guaranteeing peace of mind. With eighteen years in the industry, we have a proven track record of helping customers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customized solutions that fit the unique needs of each business. To learn more, had to safety services companycom thanks for listening to the Safety Management Show. To hear more stories from safety leaders, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a rating. Until next time stay safe,.

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