The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 4 · 1 year ago

Essential Lessons for a New Safety Professional


When you’re just starting out in the safety field, it’s important to embrace the idea that you don’t know it all. Fresh out of college, you might think that you’ve got all the information you need — but you’ll soon realize that the most important lessons are yet to come.

In this episode, Julia Wilson, Assistant Regional Operations Manager and Senior Geologist at EarthCon Consultants, Inc., shares some hard-earned lessons for new safety professionals.

Topics covered:

  • Advice for someone just starting out in the safety field
  • The importance of exercising your stop work authority
  • The benefits of switching to electronic forms

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You're listening to the Safety Management Show, where safety professional share engaging stories about their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learned along the way. Let's dig in. Thanks for tuning into the safety management show. I'm Jonathan Claybourne and I'm here this week with Julia Wilson, is the regional health and safety manager, and senior geologists. She works for Earthcn, which is the environmental consulting and Engineering Julia, you've been working in health and safety for about sixteen years and you've been a health and safety manager for earthcn for the last six years. And Earth Con, as a company, does environmental consulting and engineering. They basically go and work on technical environmental regulation and compliance. I do want to talk for a second about Earth Con and what they do. Sure, I guess. The group that I am with is the assessment remediation group. My group is based out of Houston, Texas, and we do all sorts of assessment remediation investigations, primarily soiling groundwater type investigation. So, an example, a client has a release source spill of some some kind of product and we go out there and we can delineate where it where. The release was how far it got and then collect soil, groundwater samples, surface water examples, if we have to do that kind of thing, and come up with ways to remediate that problem for our clients. We also have an engineering group. They do a lot of once we get through the remedial investigation portion of the show, the engineering group will step in with kind of the engineering designs on on how to fix those problems and whatnot. You know, if we need to cap something or we need to do something something else, that's when we hand them all the data and say go ahead, do your engineering magic, and they do a lot of capping projects, landfill engineering, that kind of stuff. And Yeah, the chief engineer for our company sits in in our Houston office, so perfect. Yeah, and if if people wanted to find out more about earthcon or contact you guys about your services, what would be the best website for them to do that? From? WWW DOTEARTHCONCOM. And we actually were recently acquired by WSP, so I'm sure that's on there as well. WSP Is a global company. Honestly, not quite sure how many people there are, but there's way more than used to be at earthcome just by ourselves. So okay, part of a big company right now, getting integrated into that, but still in the assessment remediation business line. I guess the group that I work with so perfect. So let's start by getting to know Juliet here a little bit. At the end of the day, you know you've been working long and hard hours. What are some of your favorite things to do to unwind? Oh my I actually have picked up crocheting and knitting, okay, recently. I think many people picked up random hobbies during the last year, year and a half while being stuck at home. I have two kids, two and four, and they keep me very busy. They are very entertaining, so I, you know, pick them up from school and play with them. My husband and I, you know, hang out with them. We Love Baseball. The ashows had a really great win last night, so that's great. So, you know, just kind of hanging out with family and and yeah, my wife also recently started crocheting and I don't know anything about it. I call it magic, not witchcraft, because they start with the ball of yarn and then all of a sudden the sweater. and Ye, she watched all kinds of videos and the only thing that sticks in my brain is yarn over pulled through you go. I don't know what that means, but it's something with crochet.

So you know, it's honestly, it's something to do that's you know, can be a little bit mindless at their depending how how what pattern you're following. Or if you're following a pattern, you may have to be counting and paying a little bit better attention. But I'm actually working on something, a baby blanket for a front of mine. Now, yeah, she makes a lot of this, three this, over and over and over again. Have to count anymore. She'll start with the ball of yarn and by the end of the show there's a scar for a blanket or something. It's crazy. Now everybody should be sufficiently warm. All right. So, with regards to your background, you've been doing safety for sixteen years and as the safety manager at earthcome for six would you say, in your opinion, that your path into the safety world has been pretty typical or a typical for what other people might experience? I I actually think it's fairly typical because it's not something I knew anything about going in, you know, in high school, going into college. To be perfectly honest, I went into college thinking I was going to be a biology and a history major and I accidentally took a geology class. So and I love the professor and so I just kind of stuck with it and when I got into the environmental business, it was just at the company I was out at the time. It was just kind of part of what was expected. They slapped a health and safety plan on my desk as soon as I finished my initial week of training, which was the Osha forty hour has while we're training. So I did I basically got to work that first day, was in the office, meeting people, kind of learning what I was going to be doing a little bit for a week and then I went to that training for forty hours the next week and the following week they slap work plans and health and safety plans on my desk and just it's just it was just expected of me that I would read and understand and follow this health and safety plan but also actually asked questions about it and stuff. And I have been wearing glasses since I was five years old contact since fifth grade. So I actually read in the safety plan you can't wear contacts and I called the person whose name was on this health and safety plan and it happened to be the health and safety manager for the company and I said, why can't I wear contact lenses? And he said, well, you know in the Osha Standard that data da and I said there's no real chemicals, there's no we're not going to have a flare situation or anything like that. And he said, you know, that really doesn't make any sense. You don't you shouldn't be restricted and not work contact lenses. It doesn't make sense. And so from my third week of working I've just kind of gotten into that stuff and we you know. Then, maybe I think it was the next week, we were out in the field and health and safety minutes in the morning making sure everything is cleaned up and picked up, and it just was kind of part of how I grew up in the industry. So I didn't you know, I don't think a lot of people necessarily know that there is a whole safety inside in the business that you can look into. Yeah, and and it's not something you know. I there wasn't a safety class for me to take in college. I know there are all sorts of degrees that you can get in that, but it was never anything I have been exposed to, and I feel like the majority of people that I've known in this industry, if they've gotten into health and safety, it's largely because they just kind of grew into it. It became part of what they did. And then throughout the companies that I've worked for and when I had a little stand in the oil industry a couple of years, a number of years ago now, not a couple, they were, they are super health and safety conscious and it just I mean to how you hold your hand on a handrail walking down and upstairs, because it's important and it makes a difference. And and you know, the I've had for the last sixteen years somebody saying, you...

...know, I want, my boss initially said I want everybody going home in the same or better condition that they showed up in the morning and it's always a good day. That is that is it's something that has been in my head for the last sixteen years, regardless of really what I'm doing. So I just kind of fell into it. I feel like a lot of people do kind of fall into it. Yeah, and then maybe go down literally because you know, trips now be a trip of Trip Hasard, but you know, they they get into it and it becomes something that's a little bit more interesting. You know, tracking the days without an injury or a noial recordable or reportable or anything like that. That's something that we we do because every company in the industry has to, but it's also something that we're very proud of and that my previous companies have been very proud of, and it's something that, you know, you can't take for granted. So it's you know, I think some people just they'll follow whatever instructions they're told, and that's totally fine, but some people are like, oh well, I really am interested in this and this is really important and I like seeing, you know, everybody shows up to the to work in the morning and then everybody gets to go home and everybody's good to go because going home and doing that stuff that they like to do to online. I used to play a lot of volleyball. I don't play so much volleyball anymore, but I played and I coached for years and that was one thing. I would go to work and then I would go to volleyball and if we weren't being safe, if something was going wrong, I wouldn't be able to go do those things that I like to do. You would be able to hang out with your kids or your dog or whatever, knit all the sweaters. Right. That's good. So what advice would you give somebody who's just starting in the safety field? I would say, you know, if it's something that you're doing because you know that you're you're interested in safety and you want to go through and and take the classes and actually get the certifications in safety and that kind of thing, definitely do it. But keep in mind also that you need to know what is actually doable versus what is practical, Prac yeah, yeah, practical, and and what you can and cannot do in the fields. I mean they're I have I have also worked with a few purely safety folks who really you they can't go work in the field because it's just everything they look at is a safety vidulation violation exactly. And so you do have to kind of have both both ideas in your head that yes, I need to be as safe as I possibly can, but knowing that, for example, you're inherently if you're standing behind a drill rig and you're a driller and you work that's that's inherently dangerous, right. But so is getting in your car, so is flying in an airplane. You know, like those things have risks and and and dangers associated with them, but it's how you handle that and how you kind of mitigate the stuff that, you know, kind of prevent bad things from happening. So you would you say? Would you say that Risk Assessment and mitigation play a large part into like developing that safety culture in that concept? Yes, I think so. You know, I think you need to know what work needs to be done and how to do it as safely as possible, and I think you can't do that if you don't look at the possible risk ahead of time and see. I mean that's why you write a job hazard analysis or job safety analysis, whatever you want to call it. You write those because you sit down and you go through all the stuff of okay, I'm going to be installing a groundwater well today, so the first step we get to the site. So what are some of the hazards with getting to the site, and you list them out and and how to minimize any kind of issues that can happen, and you go through the steps, the whole process, and that will then allow you to say,...

...okay, these these things okay, we're raising the massed up, that's not a hugely dangerous thing, but we're pulling an auger out of the ground, that's a little bit more dangerous. We have to pay attention to, you know, rotating equipment and pitch points and that kind of thing. So knowing what you're doing ahead of time, but having an practical idea of what actually is getting done. If you're going into the safety field and you know you want to do safety it, I would recommend no which industry you're interested in doing safety for. That's the first thing, and then try and get a little bit of practical experience in the field, not just as a safety auditor for example, but you know, go into the field and and do some of that work so that you know what can and can't actually be done that and I think that would help you understand the challenges that the line people and the frontline workers are going to face as they're doing some of this is, you know, there's the way that the book says to do it and then there's the way that they can do it, and so that will help reach some of those gaps, for sure, for sure. So is there a concept, your idea within the safety industry that you passionately disagree with, and, if so, what is that? I really don't like the idea when people say all accidents are preventable. Accidents are accidents by definition. If if they were not accidents, they were be they would be done on purpose, and then we would have to call them on purposes. And you can mitigate you can, you can do that risk analysis at the beginning and try and and eliminate the potential for those accidents to happen. But you also are living in the real world. You're working in the real world. Okay, we have a pop up thunderstorm, all of a sudden the roads are super, super slick and the person behind you doesn't slow down in time and we are ends you. Okay, that's an accident. I don't I don't think that person probably hit you on purpose, but it happened anyway and there's nothing necessarily that you could have done to prevent that. Let's just assume that that person was not playing on their cell phone and was actually paying attention. Right, so, right, you know. So I think you know. When you say all accidents are preventable, I don't. I don't necessarily think that's true, and I kind of wish people wouldn't use that phrase all the time. That, you know, kind of gets thrown around and stuff. But you know, I think you can minimize the chance for accidents to happen, but they are accidents, so they're going to happen at some point. You know, you just try and and minimize the number of them when they happen, all that kind of stuff, and the severity of the result of them. So that is in that being of like understanding that maybe all accidents aren't preventable, you would still want to focus on understanding their root cause of the accident just in case they are preventable. Right. So, if I'm hearing you, it's that there's this balancing act between understanding when people are being reckless and negligent and just not abiding by what they should be various things that are just a systematic fluke of the environment or, you know, something that is unforeseen circumstance. All right, yeah, yeah, I mean a flash flood situation, right. You know if, okay, you know there's a flash flood warning or something, that's fine, but they still come and their flash floods they come really, really fast and you can do everything possible to be away from them, them and all that kind of stuff. But you see, there's still a potential that something bad could happen, an accident could happen, you know, but again, that's that's a that's a natural thing. They occur. So lightning strikes, all that kind of stuff. Kind of sometimes it's classified as accidents, but I'm not sure that that's you know that I...

...can't stop lightning right now. So yeah, I mean that's why you want to you want to know your procedures, know what you're doing ahead of time to the best that you can, but still be, you know, cognizant that there are things outside of your control. Right and is there? Is there something that people are not doing within the safety field that you wish they would start doing more of? I really wish that people would, from the outset in their career, really feel empowered to use stop work authority. It's not just a buzz word, it's not just Oh yes, everyone has stop work authority. It is actually a real thing and it is very, very important. It doesn't matter if you have been out on a job site for a day or twenty five years. If you see something that is potentially dangerous or being done incorrectly or there's some poor housekeeping or something like that. You have the authority to say we are stopping and until this situation is figured out, and no project manager should say no, we have to go, go, go go. You know, Oh, budget, this budget, that everyone's always going to pull the budget card. Clients always want you coming in, you know, under budget if you can. I like honestly, I love coming in under budget on projects and stuff and makes my clients want to work with me more. But you know, I'm I'm not pushing for that at the risk of potential injury, you know, property damage, equipment damage, damage to the environment, I'm not. I would I would much rather spend the time, spend the money now to mitigate a potentially dangerous or bad situation. I would rather spend that money now than have to deal with the aftermath. Yes, that makes sense to me. I mean some of the equipment that people use can be hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, depending on what it is that they're doing, and share you're spending a field crew salary for a day. But if you can do it safer and save the cost of replacing or repairing that equipment. It seems like a better solution to me in the long run. Or somebody gets a partial amputation of their fingers or someone gets their thumb amputated. For some I mean ohsha classifies thumb amputations as worse than other digits. According to the team Doctor From College, thumbs are what separate us from the animals. Correct. Thank you, after Miller, but you know, it's it's I have exercise top work authority a number of time in, you know, in my in my career. I am much more adamant and willing to put my foot down now, but again, I've been doing this for sixteen years. It's you know, I'm I'm the project manager. I'm the one going out there and saying, you know, I'm the one that the clients going to come to if there's a problem with the budget. So if I say no, no, we're stopping right now, that's okay, that's on me. That's fine and you know what, I'll take that every day. I will take that multiple times every day if it means that, again, the people that are working on the project or that are working for me or that are working for the drilling company get to go home in the same or better condition than they showed up in. So I you know, and I literally just told one of our newer employees. She started with us in February, right before we had that big freeze here and in Texas, and she was out on a job site and somebody wouldn't sign the paperwork, wouldn't sign the just the sign and paperwork that says,...

Oh, I'm here, and I told her. You know, she told me about this a little bit after the fact and I told her, listen, next time that happens, you say no, you can't come here, you're not allowed to come here until you sign this paperwork. And it's my job to make sure that everyone on this site is. This is you know her, this is her job making sure she's the one out there everyone on that side is staying safe. And she I said, you can tell you can. I know we're not doing any work. That is top work authority, and I think especially New People in the industry get a little nervous. You know, everyone has a utilization requirement, everybody has a budget to deal with safety. Is more important that than that stuff. It is everybody's got to go home to their family or to their home to wherever they want to go to, but they can't if they're hurt, right and they think with the litigious nature of our society today, I think dealing with those potential lawsuits of injury or or fatality even could be much more detrimental thing, maybe possibly going over budget a little bit. MM HMM. I mean. And also, I mean if there's if there's a serious problem, you know, it gets to ocean recordable, God forbid a fatality, right, how many of your clients are going to continue being your clients? If you have that? They're not very so point ultimately, if you want to put it in money terms, it does come down to the money. It's better to go a little over here then have zero money over here because you had something really, really bad happen. So I mean you can you can always bring it down to the money, you know, but I try not to look at it that way. I really think it's important that managers and upper level people in companies remember, either, if they've come up through it, remember what it was like working in the field and and have realistic expectations for what can get done in the field, and also look at each person that's working for you. As a person. It's not a number, it's not just a checkbox it. They are a person and they need to you know, they need to know that you are looking out for them from and their safety right. So is there anything in particular that is being done in this safety industry that either you've discovered a best better way of doing or you've observed somebody else like a best practice that you could share with people? I think one of the things that folks who work in the field all the time can kind of get frustrated with as a ton of paperwork and actual physical paperwork. I don't know if you've worked in the panhandle at all, but it's really windy there all the time. So if I give my guys that are out on on, you know, various jobs out there, a whole bunch of paperwork, sometimes they can end up in Oklahoma. And so we have started using some electronic forms. I do know there are limitations on electronic forms and electronic things. You cannot use a cell phone in the middle of a process unit in a refinery. Got It. But we have started doing our behavior base safety forms on an electronic form and I don't it's not it's not anything that I invented by any stretch, but we have kind of adopted it and it's worked really, really well for us. They also don't love being given more and more paperwork to have to fill out on a daily basis or a weekly basis, and so having something that just shows up in there on their calendar, on their phone when they're sitting in the truck, they can click in, fill it out real quick and take care of it that way. You know, being able to look at all of that data then is a lot easier because now I have it all in. I can download the spreadsheet, I can download the graphs, I can look and see, okay, did we house our housekeeping? Looking how, because that maybe was an issue before, or... know, oh, I know everybody was in a respirator today, so let me look and see. Did anyone make an observation of something that was going on? Is there something that needs to be addressed in terms of respirator use or procedure that we're using out there in the field? And having it electronic means they can, the guys that are in the field can fill it out. The guys, the Gals, anybody that's in the field, the people in the field can fill it out much more easily. They don't have to worry about it getting blown away, and then in the office we can look at it, digest the information and make any changes faster. I don't have to have somebody typing something in for me to a spreadsheet because it's already there. So it's not, you know, it's not anything that I've necessarily invented, of course, but I certainly will take advantage to the to the extent that I can. We like using electronic forms, you know, when we can so and so having all of that data your fingertips helps you to do, you know, in depth reporting and analysis. Helps you understand root cause a little better. It helps you understand changes to process. So if you need to do continuous process improvement, you've got data to back up why we're changing this process or why this change has to occur, because there's at the dance that supports this change and it's not as arbitrary exactly. And and also, I mean we you know, we have our group here in Houston, we have a group in Atlanta, we have now as part of WSP, were all over the place. But you know, when someone wants to know, well, how's your behavior base safety program been working? What kind of information do you have? I can pull up those graphs and I can say, okay, it's been for the group that's that's in Texas, it's been over six years, not fune with since we've had any kind of recordable or reportable incident. That's great, but you know, previously, if I had it just in stacks of paper, I wouldn't be able to just pull that up very quickly and show and say, Oh hey, no, here's this information if our clients want it, because clients being clients, can ask for whatever they want whenever they want. So first if they want it, if they want it, they can have it. It's not going to take me but ten minutes to download the information and send it to them. So I think it makes life easier for everybody, but it also makes all that data this being generated more usable, because you know, it was not. I'm a big fan of data and analytics and like understanding root cause and why things happen and, you know, seeing the numbers and understanding the big picture thing. So I think that's definitely a big takeaway for me. MMM for sure. First on the kind of flip side of this. Is there a failure or a problem or something that you either personally experienced or witness that you think other people might be heading for? If so, what is that? I think sometimes maybe relying on somebody else's information or maybe incomplete information can be can be a little bit tough, or just taking things kind of straight at at face value. If you know, if you're if you're an experienced field geologist, you have all this knowledge in the back of your head because you've been doing it for so long. You go out there, you know what to look for, you know what you know what you're going to need, what to write down, all that kind of stuff. But I think part of that, part of being that I experience field geologist, also should include passing that information on. And you know, I wouldn't have the information that I have safety related, geology, related all of that kind of stuff. I wouldn't be able to do that if I hadn't had some pretty good mentors along the way teaching me and showing me how to do things safely. Where to stand, where to stand when you're near a drill rig. We're not to stay, we're not stand. Why do you need your hard hat? Okay, and I think sometimes from the the new people coming in, you need to have the idea in your head that you you don't actually know it...

...all. And I know it's I mean I remember when I started I was like, oh well, I can do this, I have a master's in geology. This is going to be this is going to be great, I'm going to be so good at this, and then I got out there and I said this is not at all what I learned. And you have to very kind of quickly say, okay, my master's is great and now I'm going to get a new one in actually makes Alice ex variance. And so I think, I think it's just a shift that that people have to have. From new folks coming into the industry, you need to really pay attention and really learn and and be willing to learn and but from the flip side, people who have been in the industry for a long time, you can't just assume that the new people know exactly what it is that they're supposed to be doing. There's a reason that sometimes, depending what your what industry you're in, you got a green sticker on your hard hat, it means you're a brand new pay better attention to me right make sure I don't step in a hole. But I think, I don't know that it's necessarily a pitfall. I just think it's one of those things that you know kind of going through school. You get through fifth if you're switching schools, you get through fifth grade and you go into middle and you're like, I'm so cool I was in fifth grade. Then you get to sixth grade and you're like, Oh, I'm not cool anymore. Yet at eighth grade, into nine grades, the same thing. You get out of college or Grad School or whatever. You're like, okay, this is great. You really need to realize there are things that you don't know. You might be very brilliant and that's fantastic, but you still need to learn. And on the flip side, the people that have been doing it need to be willing to teach. And it is great, I got to say, when you have somebody who can anticipate everything that's in your head, but when they're not there anymore because they're moving on or whatever happens, you have to be willing to teach that new person the best practices and that kind of thing and be willing to take information from them to learn from them. To I had I had a field technician probably four years ago that we were we were drilling and he was in school to become a geologist and so he really wanted to log the soils and all this. So I went through a whole bunch of it with him and then he said, okay, I want to do it and he started writing. He put on multiple pairs of gloves and he started writing down the depths on his glove and the the boring ID on his glove and he would take a picture of the glove and then he would take a picture of the core. Now I always have a paper and take a picture of it and take a picture of the course. So that was fine, but the fact that he did it on his glove and then use that glove, took it off so we wouldn't contaminate the next thing and wrote on that glove. I this was the most amazing thing I have learned in forever, because you don't have millions of pieces of paper flying around. It's all right there and if you start with all the gloves on, then you get down to the last pair at the end and you're good. You haven't you haven't cross contaminated anything, and so I think you need to you really need to be willing to learn throughout your entire career and I think sometimes what to me would be a pitfall is you kind of forget that or you lose that or you come in and you have learned everything, I've learned, I don't need to learn anymore, and it goes from safety to I mean, coming in I didn't know anything. I didn't know. I didn't you know, you can see the things maybe might be a little bit unsafe, but I didn't know that there's an actual reason in New York City, when you're drilling a hole, you have to go two feet by two feet by five feet digging. You can't use a rig for that. Right. Well, there's a reason because it's spaghetti under there and it's a safety thing. But it's a best practice, it's it's to keep everybody safe, and so I think everyone just needs to kind of take a step back and say, I can still learn and what I have... teach is also important too. So it's a two way street and and you can stay out of you can avoid that pitfall if you're willing to learn constantly and and to teach constantly, so good. I'm want to cycle back a minute to something you said a little while ago. You were talking about as far as avoiding mistakes, like not trusting incomplete data, in accurate data. So just in general, if you're digging in the soil and somebody gives you like a map, it says, you know, the sewer lines are here in the power lines over there. Would would you say that it would be maybe in your best interest to not take that at face value and spend a little bit of time to verify that pipes are where they're supposed to be or not where they're not supposed to be? Yes, absolutely, you know, I you should. You should be able to trust the information that you're given, but you may, you know, the information that you get might be as complete as that person is capable of doing. I had a project a long time ago for a previous company that we had three drill rigs going and someone else was doing the pre clear logging of the whole so the two feet by two feet by five feet that I just mentioned, all of that has to get logged on the field form and but the the sand, I guess that was at the bottom of that five feet was more like a beach sand as opposed to what we would find naturally in the area, and it wasn't recorded as such on the field form. So when I got there with the drill rig and the driller was starting to to go, we got down to, you know, that five footmark and the augur started kind of bouncing up and down and so both the driller and I said this is very weird. We're going to stop. We had come across cobbles elsewhere, cobbles, larger size stones that are that are in the subsurface and keeping in mind where we were, it was almostly Phil it wasn't a whole lot of natural stuff that was there. You know from from from the dawn of time and stuff. So there's a lot of fill. We were in a city and so there's just a lot of stuff going on there underneath the pavement. And so we stopped and I wrote it down in my field book and I called my supervisor and my supervisor said no, no, that was prett cleared. It's okay, and I said okay, I mean I had the preclear log in front of me, but it didn't it didn't alert me that there was something weird. That I should be on the lookout for. And so we start going again and it's bouncing, bouncing, duncing. When I stopped it again, called the supervisor, said this does is really doesn't feel right and it was a gut feel. The driller had it, I had it and I was told Nope, keep going, keep going. Stopped at the third time. Long Story Short, we started going again, the augur turned one more time and up comes the water. We found the missing waterline and and I had had all of the all of the plates, I had all of the piping that was marked. That should have we should have been very clear. We had had a ground penetrating radar, sor GPR survey done initially. So this this pipe, we didn't know it was there. It shouldn't have been there based on everything that we had and everything that we knew. The water did get turned off. Of course this happens on a Friday afternoon. Of course I will just of course, of course it does. But it was a situation where, you know, I didn't even realize I had in complete information. So that's that's the other thing. It has made me a lot more skeptical when I go out of somebody else has cleared a location. I don't just drop that. I don't have the driller to drop that agor down and say let's let's get a move on. We are very, very slow and methodical about it. And I know you know the the junior geologist that...

I've had out over the last few years that I've been training and stuff. They always say you're going so slow. I'm like, where are pipes, various lines? Where is that stuff going to be? It's should be in in the top five feet. I mean at least down here we don't have to go as deep as they go up in the northeast and I would guess elsewhere in the North because of freezing temperatures and stuff, everything's a little should be a little bit deeper up there, but but still, I mean it's go very slowly, very methodical, because you just don't know exactly the information that you have, the data that you have in front of you, something may or may not be missing. And also, I would say you you know absolutely if you had a gut feeling about something, trust your gut. You know it's it's like when you're taking a test and and you know you pick, you pick one answer don't overthink it. If that's what you think the answer is. That's what you think the answer is, don't go back and change it. So don't you know if something feels wrong or off, stop. That's a great example of a stop work that I should have stuck to my guns and I didn't. If if I were in that situation now, I would say I would have had the driller polly Auger, and we would have dug a little bit deeper, gotten the Posthole digg or something like that, and then if I had seen that sand, I would have known that it's different. The person who was logging it was not a geologist, so that was the other issue. She wrote down sand. She wasn't wrong. She just didn't tell me more about the sand. Turn and I said that the difference is between the different times of sand. Yeah, what is you know sand? Sand is actually a size designation. So it you know, and then you classify it as with the color and that. So what she had seen and just called sand was actually more of a kind of a each sand, for lack of a better description, that raise people understand as opposed to the normal sand sized, darker colored stuff that we see there right it was that fine green particulate stuff, not the big course sand. Yeah, YEA, so, but you know, that's you have to you have to realize that there's going to be a limit to the information that you have and if something feels off, try and get more information in the safest way possible. So that would mean if the augur is bouncing, stop, that's definitely a good indication. Should do that, you know if it's because the thing is, if we had doug a little bit deeper and saw that it wasn't a cobble, if it was a cobble, if it was, you know, like some kind of bigger, bigger thing under their okay, we just move it out of the way. That's easy. You dig down a little bit, you see, Oh, it's not a cobble. What is it? Oh, it's that waterline we were looking for. Okay, good move. You know, it ended up. We ended up. Nobody got hurt. Nothing was really damage per se. You know, they the the place was an apartment complex. They were able to turn off the water, but of course it was a Friday afternoon. Then we had to the repair had to happen over the weekend because it was an apartment complex. And all of that. Good Buddy was super happy with you, Super Super Happy. You know. So it I mean it ended up being a good example of, you know, we should have done a stop work, we should have found out a little bit more information, but nobody got hurt. There wasn't a huge amount of impact after that, so that was good. And even from the business monetary aspect of it, that was way above my paygrade at the time, but it did work out and it was okay and we didn't lose the client. All of that kind of stuff that the apartment complex was like, Oh wow, you shouldn't have done that, and then they looked... their own maps and they said, Oh wow, we should have known where the pipe was. So you know, it for he is a fortunate teaching moment for you. Thank it was a good teaching moment. Yeah, for sure. Most important thing is that nobody got hurt and we all made it home just super late on a Friday night. So there are worse things. There are worse things, for sure. It could have been raining, it could have been so changing gears a little bit. Is there something that your team has done recently that or an achievement that they've done that you've been either really so, really proud of or surprised by the outcome of. Well, a couple. I was actually just looking through our our behavior base safety data because I'm going to be giving a little presentation on that in a couple of weeks, and it has been over over six years since we've had a recordable or reportable from our Texas group. So that's what tasty. That's pretty great. Near MSSRS, we've had a good Jillion, but that's good. It's good to have them near misses, because then you're you're realizing, oh, that could be a problem. So so that is has been really great. But also just the fact that I have so much data on my BBS forms and from that we literally a few years ago one of one of the locations that we work at, the facility people, decided that our folks, before they open a well, they need to set up an exclusion zone, put on a respirator, then open the well, test the test for benzene coming out of it, step out of the the exclusion zone, weight fifteen minutes, tested again and then if it's if it's allowable amounts or nothing measurable, they can take off the respirator and continue working, whatever it is, if they want to continue working, just you say, they're gaging. It's a five hundred foot will, so it's going to take a little while, right. So say they just want to open it and gage it, doing it in rest. Were in a respirator, respiratory protection. The at first there was a little bit of pushback, but the the technicians were like, you know what, we got to do it, we got to do it. It's okay, and they do it and there's it's just part of what they do. And the client, actually, one of the one of the client contact x up there, would sit there from, you know, far away and and watch them unbeknownst to our technicians, and they actually called and said, you know, I've been watching since we had these rules going to effect, this new procedure, and your guys do it every single time. They don't take a shortcut. And it wasn't that wasn't one of my projects, but it was. You know, the the project manager was telling us that and she's like, they grumbled once because it can get hot wearing a respirator, but then they said right, this is what we have to do. And to have a client say we were spying on your technicians from far away so that they couldn't see us, and they still were doing it right, exactly how we had it laid out and exactly how it was supposed to be done. That was fantastic. It's just ingrained, it's just something that is part of what they have to do and and they're doing it correctly and there's no fussing about it, there's no whining about it, there's just this is how we do this and we make sure that we're doing it exactly how we're supposed to. That, to me is a huge win in terms of kind of getting a culture of safety really going. You know, I've had, you know, technicians at other refineries who will literally, they will stop their car in the middle of the road in the refinery, put on their hazards, get out and move pieces of equipment out of the roadway that you...

...know, if they're there and it's blocked off, they're not going to go that way. So that's okay. But if it's if it's somebody else has missed housekeeping or if it's something that fell off, goodness, if it fell off of another truck or something, they literally will move it out of the way and make a phone call or go into the office and tell somebody, Hey, there's this piece of equipment or there was this left over here and I don't know whose it is, but I moved it out of the road. That kind of thing, looking out for not only themselves in the work that they're doing, but everybody else around, is a huge testament to, I think, the safety culture that we've developed and and kind of fostered here. It's let's I mean, let's be on a safety training can be very boring. I don't know what you're talking about actually, especially when you know you take your your basic orientation plus every year or your has biber refresher every year. It's not. It's not necessarily like the information really changes. It's like CPR, right, they change it every now and again, but I think it's just to keep people interested. Now, for the most part it's the same the same stuff you already know, but you gotta go through the training anyway, because that's when I says. But it's, you know, it's the fact that they it's not even a question now to to do that, to pay better attention, to do a three hundred and sixty walk around their truck to make sure they're not going to drive into anything, to, if the facility requires it, to back into your parking space. I know not all facilities require that, but most of the guys that that I work with, our back entners. I am too for, you know, since taking any number of safety courses and driving courses and stuff, and it's true that, you know, when you get somewhere you have a little bit more time, unless you're running super late, you generally have a little bit more time. You can take time if you back into that parking space. Then when you're ready to go, you just have to look straight ahead, check around, make sure it's safe to pull out straight as opposed to backing up, which is the more dangerous action. So it just really it makes me really proud that, you know, the the people that I work with really take it seriously and it's and and they, you know, they, whether they would say it this way or not, they want their coworkers and everybody else to go home in the same or better condition. It's just a part of what we do and I you know, I don't think it's I don't think it's necessarily like that everywhere because, again, if you're getting that, if you're getting that budget pressure or that we got to make this time pressure, that's one of the first things that can go out the window. Oh, I can just make this short, quick, shortcut. Don't do it, don't, don't do it. It's not worth it's not worth the ten seconds you're going to save if something bad happens. So, but that really makes me very proud is that everybody's everybody takes ownership of that and it's important to everybody. Whether or not they say it, it's their actions that are showing it. So that is definitely something to be proud of. Yeah, so good job to you and your team. That's very commendable. We're out of time for this week. So we've been on with Julia Wilson, their regional health and safety manager, and senior geologists at earthcome, and you've been listening to the safety management show brought to you by Safety Services Company. Thanks for joining us. In need of a blueprint for workplace safety and compliance, Safety Services Company is North America's leading provider of safety training and compliance solutions. We supply custom safety manuals and policies and onsite and online training solutions that will enhance the safety of your workplace, and our compliance services will save you time and resources, guaranteeing peace of mind. With eighteen years in the industry, we have a proven track record of helping customers achieve better safety outcomes by providing customized solutions that fit the unique needs of each business. To learn more, head to safety services COMPANYCOM. Thanks for listening to the Safety Management Show.

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