The Safety Management Show
The Safety Management Show

Episode 4 · 2 months ago

Essential Lessons for a New Safety Professional

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When you’re just starting out in the safety field, it’s important to embrace the idea that you don’t know it all. Fresh out of college, you might think that you’ve got all the information you need — but you’ll soon realize that the most important lessons are yet to come.

In this episode, Julia Wilson, Assistant Regional Operations Manager and Senior Geologist at EarthCon Consultants, Inc., shares some hard-earned lessons for new safety professionals.

Topics covered:

  • Advice for someone just starting out in the safety field
  • The importance of exercising your stop work authority
  • The benefits of switching to electronic forms

Hear more stories from safety professionals by subscribing in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You're listening to the safetymanagement show where safety professionals share engaging storiesabout their time in the trenches and the hard earned lessons they've learnedalong the way. Let's dig in thanks for tuning into the sty management. Showi'm jonathan clayborn, and i'm here this week with julia wilson is theregional health and safety manager and senior geologists. She works for earthkan, which is the environmental, consulting and engineering julia you'vebeen working in health and safety for about sixteen years and you've beenhelping safety manager for earth con for the last six years and earth corn. As a company doesenvironmental, consulting and engineering, they basically go and workon technical, environmental regulation and compliance. You want to talk for asecond about earth, corn and what they do sure. I guess the group that i am withis the assessment remediation group. My group is based out of houston texas andwe do all sorts of assessment remediation investigations, primarilysoiling groundwater type investigation. So an example: a client has a releaseor a spill of some some kind of product and we go out there and we candelineate where it where the release was, how far i got and then collectsoil groundwater sample, surface water, ertal s. If we have to that kind ofthing and come up with ways to remediate that problem for our clients,we also have an engineering group. They do a lot of once we get through theremedial investigation portion of the show. The engineering group will stepin with kind of the engineering designs on how to fix those problems. And whatnot you know if we need to cap something or we need to do somethingsomething else. That's when we hand them all the data and say go ahead: doyour engineering magic and they do a lot of capping projects, landfill engineering, that kind ofstuff and yeah. The chief engineer for our company sits in in our houstonoffice, so perfect, yeah, and if the people wanted to find out more aboutearth con or contact you guys about your services, what would be the bestwebsite for them to do that from www erkoom and we actually were recentlyacquired by ws p. So i'm sure that's on there as well. Wasp is a global company.I honestly not quite sure how many people there are, but there's way morethan used to be at earth come just by ourselves. So, okay part of a bigcompany right now getting integrated into that, but still in the assessmentremediation business line. I guess the group that i work with set perfect. So,let's start by getting to know julia here a little bit at the end of the day,you know you've been working long hard hours. What are some of your favoritethings to do to unwind? Oh my. I actually have picked upcrocheting and knitting okay recently, i think many people picked up randomhobbies during the last year year and a half while being stuck at home. I havetwo kids. Two and four, and they keep me very busy- they are veryentertaining so i you know pick it on m school and playwith them. My husband and i you know, hang out with them. We love baseball.The ashes had a really great wind last night, so that was great. So you knowjust kind of hanging out with family, and my wife also recently started crouchingand i don't know anything about it. I call it magic, not witchcraft, becausethey start with the ball of yarn and then all of a sudden, the sweater andusually watched all kinds of videos, and the only thing that sticks in mybrain is you aren't over pulled through. I don't know what that means, but it'ssomething with crochet. So you know...

...it's honestly. It's something to do.That's you know can be a little bit mindless at their depending how what pattern you're, following or ifyou're, following the pattern, you may have to be counting and paying a littlebit better attention, but i'm actually working on something a baby like it fora friend of mine, now yeah she mak o three. Just over and over and overagain, i e have to count anymore so start with the ball of yarn and by theend of the show, there's a scarf or a blanket or something it's crazy. Noweverybody should be sufficiently warm all right. So, with regards to yourbackground, you've been doing safety for sixteen years and as the safetymanager at earth come for six. Would you say in your opinion that your pathinto the safety world has been pretty typical or atypical for what otherpeople might experience? I actually think it's fairly typical, because it'si not something i knew anything about going in. You know in high school goinginto college. To be perfectly honest, i went into college thinking. I was goingto be a biology and a history major and i accidentally took a geology class so,and i love the professor, and so i just kind of stuck with it, and when i got into the environment to business itwas just at the company i was at at the time it was just kind of part of what was expected. Theyslapped a health and safety plan on my desk as soon as i finished. My initialweek of training, which was the ocean of forty hour, has while were training.So i did, i basically got to work that first day was in the office meetingpeople kind of learning what i was going to be doing a little bit for aweek, and then i went to that training for forty hours the next week and thefollowing week. They slap work plans in health and safety plans on my desk, and just it's just. It was just expected ofme that i would read and understand and follow this health and sage plan, butbut also actually ask questions about it and stuff, and i have been wearingglasses since i was five years old contact since fifth grade, so iactually read in the safety plan. You can't wear contacts and i called theperson whose name was on this health and safety plan, and it happened to bethe health and safety manager for the company, and i said why can't i wearcontact lenses and he said well, you know and the ocean standard dat. I ited and i said, there's no real chemicals, there's, no we're not goingto have a flare situation or anything like that, and he said you know thatreally doesn't make any sense. You don't you shouldn't, be restricted andnot were contact lenses. It doesn't make sense, and so from my third week of working i've just kind of gotten into thatstuff, and we you know then may i think it was thenext week we were out in the field and health and safety minutes in themorning making sure everything is cleaned up and picked up, and it justwas kind of part of how i grew up in the industry. So ididn't you know, i don't think a lot of people necessarily know that there is awhole safety in sight of the business that you can look into yeah and it'snot something. You know there wasn't a safety class for me to take in incollege. I know there are all sorts of degrees that you can get in that, butit was never anything i have been exposed to, and i feel like themajority of people that i've known in this industry, if they've gotten intohealth and safety, it's largely because they just kind of grew into it. Itbecame part of of what they did and then throughout the companies that i've worked for andwhen i had a little stint in the oil industry a couple of years a number ofyears ago, now not a couple. They were, they are super health and safetyconscious and it just i mean to how you hold your hand on a hand, rail walkingdown and upstairs, because it's important and it makes a difference and-and you know the i've had for the last sixteen years.Somebody saying you know i want my boss...

...initially said i want everybody goinghome in the same or better condition that they showed up in the morning andthat's always a good day. That is that is it's something that has been in myhead for the last sixteen years, regardless of really what i'm doing so.I just kind of fell into it. I feel, like a lot of people, do kind of fallinto it, yeah yeah and then maybe go out literally because you know trips no be a trip, flori hazard, but you knowthey they get into it and it becomessomething. That's a little bit more interesting. You know, tracking thedays without an injury or a notio, recordable or reportable, or anythinglike that. That's something that we do because every company in the industryhas to, but it's also something that we're very proud of and that myprevious companies have been very proud of, and it's something that you knowyou can't take for granted. So it's you know, i think some people just they'll,follow whatever instructions, they're told and that's totally fine, but somepeople are like. Oh well, i really am interested in this, and this is reallyimportant and i like seeing you know everybody shows up to to work in themorning and then everybody gets to go home and everybody's good to go becausegoing home and doing that stuff that they like to do to on wind. I used toplay a lot of volleyball. I don't play so much volleyball anymore, but iplayed and i coached for years, and that was one thing i would go to workand then i would go to volleyball and if we weren't being safe, if somethingwas going wrong, i wouldn't we only go. Do those things that i like to do youand to be able to hang out with your kids or your dog or whatever knit allthe setters right that so what advice would you give somebodywho's just starting in the safety field? I would say you know if it's somethingthat you're doing, because you know that you're interested in safety andyou want to go through and take the classes and actually get thecertifications in safety, and that kind of thing definitely do it. But keep inmind also that you need to know what is actually doable versus what ispractical practice, yeah, yeah, practical and and what what you can andcannot do in the fields i mean there. I have. I have also worked with a few purely safety folks who really they can't go work in the field,because it's just everything they look at is a santy violation in violationexactly, and so you do have to kind of have both both ideas in your head that,yes, i need to be as safe as i possibly can, but knowing that, for example,you're, inherently, if you're standing behind a drill, reg and you're adriller and youre, that's that's inherently dangerous right, but so isgetting in your car, so is flying in an airplane. You know, like those things,have risks and and danger is associated with them, but it's how you handle thatand how you kind of mitigate the stuff that you know kind of prevent badthings from happening so, but would you say, would you say that risk assessmentand mitigation play a large part into like developing that safety culture? Inthat concept, yes, i think so you know, i think youneed to know what work needs to be done and how to do it as safely as possible,and i think you can't do that. If you don't look at the possible risk aheadof time and see, i mean that's, why you write a job hazard, an analysis or jobsafety analysis. Whatever you want to call it, you write those because yousit down and you go through all the steps of okay, i'm going to beinstalling a groundwater. Well today, so the first step we get to the site. Sowhat are some of the hazards with getting to the site and you list themout and and how to minimize any kind of issues that can happen and you gothrough the steps, the whole process,...

...and that will then allow you to say.Okay, these these things. Okay, we were raising the mask up, that's not ahugely dangerous thing, but we're pulling an auger out of the ground.That's a little bit more dangerous. We have to pay attention to you, knowrotating equipment and pitch points, and that kind of thing, so knowing what you're doing ahead of time,but having an practical idea of what actually is getting done if you'regoing into the safety field- and you know you want to do safety it it, iwould recommend no, which industry you're interested indoing safety for that's the first thing and then try and get a little bit ofpractical experience in the field, not just as a safety auditor, forexample, but you know, go into the field and and do some of that work sothat you know what kennon can't actually be done so, and i think thatwould help you understand the challenges that the line people and thefrontline workers are going to face as they're doing some of this is, you know,there's the way that the book says to do it and then there's the way thatthey can do it, and so that will help bridge some of those gaps for sure forsure. So is there a concept or idea within the safety industry that youpassionately disagree with and if so, what is that? I really don't like theidea when people say all accidents are preventable. Accidents are accidents bydefinition. If if they were not accidents, they were bet, they would bedone on purpose, and then we would have to call them on purposes and you canmitigate you. Can you can do that risk analysis at the beginning and try andand eliminate the potential for thoseaccidents to happen, but you also are living in the real worldyou're working in the real world. Okay, we have a pup of thunderstorm all of asudden. The roads are super super slick and the person behind you doesn't slow downin time and wear enzo. Okay, that's an accident. I don't. I don't think thatperson probably hits you on on purpose, but it happened anyway and there'snothing necessarily that you could have done to prevent that. Let's just assumethat that person was not playing on their cell phone and was actuallypaying attention right. So right you know, so i think you know when you sayall accidents are preventable. I don't. I don't necessarily think that's trueand i kind of wish people wouldn't use that phrase all the time you know kindof gets thrown around and stuff, but you know, i think you can minimize thechance for accidents to happen, but they are accidents. So they're going tohappen at some point. You know you just try and and minimize the number of them when they happen allthat kind of stuff and the severity of the result of them. So that is in thatvein of, like understanding that maybe all acidents aren't preventable. Youwould still want to focus on understanding the cause of the accident,just in case they are preventable right. So if i'm hearing you it's that,there's this balancing act between understanding when people are beingreckless and negligent and just not abiding by what they should be variousthings that are just a systematic fluke of the environment or you knowsomething that is a unforeseen circumstance right. Yeah yeah, i mean aflash flood situation right. You know if it okay, you know, there's aflashflood warning or something that's fine, but they still come and theirflash bloods. They come really really fast and you can do everything possibleto be away from them and all that kind of stuff, but you there's stillpotential that something bad could happen. An accident could happen. Youknow, but again, that's that's a that's a natural thing. They are cur solightning tricks all that kind of stuff kind of sometimes it's classified asaccidents, but i'm not sure that that's...

...you know that i can't stop lightningright. So yeah i mean that's why you want to you want to know yourprocedures know what you're doing ahead of time to the best that you can butstill be. You know cognizant that there arethings outside of your control rim and is there? Is there something thatpeople are not doing within the safety fieldthat you wish they would start doing more of i really wish that people would, from the outset, in their career,really feel empowered to use stockwork authority. It's not just a buzz word.It's not just! Oh, yes, everyone has stop work authority, it is actually areal thing and it is very, very important. It doesn't matter if youhave been out on a job site for a day or twenty five years. If you seesomething that is potentially dangerous or being doneincorrectly or there's some poor housekeeping or something like that,you have the authority to say we are stopping, and until this situation isfigured out and no product manager should say no, wehave to go. Go, go, go. You know, oh budget, this budget that everyone'salways going to pull the budget card. Clients always want you coming in. Youknow under budget. If you can, i, like honestly, i love coming in under budgeton projects and stuff. It makes my clients want to work with me more, butyou know i'm not pushing for that at the risk of potential injury. You know propertydamage, equipment, damage, damage to the environment, i'm not. I would. Iwould much rather spend the time, spend the money now to mitigate a potentially dangerous or badsituation. I would rather spend that money now than have to deal with theaftermath. Yes, that makes sense to me. I mean some of the equipment thatpeople use can be hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, depending onwhat it is, that they're doing and sure you're spending a field crew salary fora day, but if you can do it safer and save the cost of replacing or repairingthat equipment, it seems like a better solution to me in the long run orsomebody gets a partial amputation of their fingers or someone gets theirthumb amputated. For some i mean osha classifies thumb amputations as worsethan other digits right, according to the team doctor from college thumbs,are what separate us from the animals cresap. Thank you, doctor nile, but youknow it's it's. I have exercise stupor authority anumber of times in you know. In my in my career, i am much more adamant andwilling to put my foot down now, but again i've been doing this for sixteenyears. It's you know, i'm the project manager, i'm the one going out thereand saying you know, i'm the one that the clients going to come to you ifthere's a problem with budget. So if i say no, no, no we're stopping right.Now! That's! Okay! That's on me! That's fine! And you know what i'll take thatevery day. I will take that multiple times every day, if it means that againthe people that are working on the project or that are working for me orthat are working for the drilling company, get to go home in the same orbetter condition than they showed up in. So i you know- and i literally justtold one of our newer employees. She started with us in february rightbefore we had that big freeze here in in texas and she was out on a job siteand somebody wouldn't sign the paperwork,wouldn't sign the just the sign in...

...paperwork that says. Oh i'm here and itold her you know she told me about this a little bit after the fact- and itold her listen next time. That happens. You say no! You can't come here, you'renot allowed to come here until you sign this paper work and it's my job to makesure that everyone on this site is this. You know her. This is her jobbing sureshe's, the one out there. Everyone on that side is staying safe and she, i said you can tell you, can sayno we're not doing any work. That is southwark authority and i thinkespecially new people in the industry get a little nervous. You know everyonehas a utilization requirement. Everybody has a budget to deal with. Safety is more important than thatstuff. It is everybody's, got to go home to their family or to their hometo wherever they want to go to, but they can't if they're, hurt right and ithink, with the litigious nature of our society today, i think dealing withthose potential lawsuits of injury or or fatality even could be much moredetrimental than may be, possibly going over budget a little bit m m, i mean,and also an if there's, if there's a a serious problem, you know it gets toocean recordable, god forbid of fatality right. How many of yourclients are going to continue being your clients? If you have that they're,not there's no point finitely. Ultimately, if you want to put it inmoney terms, it does come down to the money. It's better to go a little overhere then have zero money over here, because you had something really reallybad happen, so i mean you: can you can always bring it down to the money youknow, but i try not to look at it that way. I really think it's important thatmanagers and upper level people in companies remember either if they've come upthrough it remember what it was like working in the field and have realisticexpectations for what can get done in the field and also look at each person.That's working for you as a person, it's not a number, it's not just acheck box, they are a person and they need to. You know they need to know that you arelooking out for them and their safety right. So is there anything in particular that isbeing done in the safety industry that either you've discovered a best, abetter way of doing or you've observed somebody else like a best practice thatyou could share with people. I think one of the things that folks who workin the field, all the time, can kind of get frustrated with a ton of paper workand actual physical paperwork. I don't know if you've worked in the panhandleat all, but it's really windy there all the time. So, if i give my guys thatare out on you know various jobs out there a wholebunch of paperwork, sometimes they can end up in oklahoma, and so we havestarted using some electronic forms. I do know there are limitations onelectronic forms and electronic things. You cannot use a cell phone in a middleof a process unit in a refinery got, but we have started doing our behaviorbase safety forms on an electronic form, and i don't it's not it's not anythingthat i invented by any stretch, but we have kind of adopted it, and it'sworked really really well for us. They also don't love being given more andmore paper work to have to fill out on a daily basis or a weekly basis, and sohaving something that just shows up in their on their calendar on their phonewhen they're sitting in the truck they can click in fill it out real, quickand take care of it. That way, you know being able to look at all of that data. Then, is alot easier, because now i have it all in i can download the spreadsheet i candownload the graphs i can look and see. Okay, did we how's our housekeepinglooking how because that maybe was an issue before or you know, oh, i knoweverybody was in a respirator today. So...

...let me look and see: did anyone make anobservation of something that was going on? Is there something that needs to beaddressed in terms of respirator use or procedure that we're using out there inthe field and having it electronic means they can? The guys that are inthe field can fill it out the guys the goes anybody that's in the field. Thepeople in the fields can fill it out much more easily. They don't have toworry about it getting blown away and then in the office we can look at it,digest the information and make any changes faster. I don't have to havesomebody typing something in for me to a spreadsheet, because it's alreadythere. So it's not you know it's not anything that i've necessarily invented,of course, but i certainly will take advantage to the to the extent that ican we like using electronic forms. You know when we can so and so having allof that data. Your fingertips helps you to do. You know in depth reporting inanalysis that helps you. U understand, root cause a little better. It helpsyou understand, changes to process. So if you need to do continuous processimprovement, you've got data to back up. Why we're changing this process or whythis change has to occur because there's evidence that supports thischange and it's not a arbitrary, exactly and- and also i mean we, youknow we have our group here in houston. We have a group in atlanta. We have nowas part of wp we're all over the place, but you know when someone wants to knowwell, how's your behavior bay safety program been working. What kind ofinformation do you have? I can pull up those graphs and i can say: okay, it'sbeen for the group. That's that's! In texas, it's been over six years, notgone with since we've had any kind of recordable or reportable incident.That's great, but you know previously. If i had it just in stacks of paper, iwouldn't be able to just pull that up very quickly and show and say: oh, hey,no, here's this information. If our clients want it because clients beingclients can ask for whatever they want whenever they want, so if they want it,if they want it, they can have it. It's not going to take me, but ten minutesto download the information and send it to them. So i think it makes lifeeasier for everybody, but it also makes all that data this being generated moreusable because it is i'm a big fan of data and analytics and like an standingroucas and why things happen, and you know seeing the number is thatunderstanding the big picture thing? So we, i think, that's definitely a bigtakeaway for me m for sure. First, on the kind of flip side of this, is therea a failure or a problem or somethingthat you've either personally experienced or witness that you thinkother people might be heading for it? If so, what is that, i think sometimesmaybe relying on somebody else's information or maybeincomplete information can be, can be a little bit tough or just taking thingskind of straight at face value. If you know, ifyou're, if you're an experienced field geologist, you have all this knowledgein the back of your head because you've been doing it for so long. You go outthere. You know what to look for. You know what you know: what you're goingto need, what to write down all that kind of stuff, but i think part of that part of being that i experiencedfield. Geologist also should include passing that information on, and youknow i wouldn't have the information that i have safety related geologyrelated all that kind of stuff. I wouldn't be able to do that if i hadn'thad some pretty good mentors along the way teaching me and showing me how todo things safely, where to stand where to stand when you're near a drill rigor not to or were not to stand. Why do you need your hard hat? Okay and ithink, sometimes from the new people coming in. You need to have the idea inyour head that you, you don't actually...

...know it all, and i know it's i mean iremember when i started. I was like oh well, i can do this. I have a master'sin geology. This is going to be. This is going to be great, i'm going to beso good at this, and then i got out there, and i said this is not at allwhat i learned and you have to very kind of quickly say: okay, my mastersis great, and now i'm going to get a new one in actual mix ice experience,and so i think i think it's just a shift that that people have to havefrom new folks coming into the industry. You need to really pay attention and really learnand be willing to learn, and but from the flip side, people who havebeen in the industry for a long time. You can't just assume that the newpeople know exactly what it is that they're supposed to be doing, there's areason that sometimes, depending what your, what industry you're in you got,a green stick er on your hard hat. It means you're a brand new pay betterattention to me right make sure i don't step in a hole, but i think i don'tknow that it's necessarily a pitfall. I just think it's one of those thingsthat you know kind of going through school and you get through if, ifyou're, switching schools you get through fifth grade and you go intomiddle school and you're, like i'm so cool, i was in fifth grade, then youget to sixth grade and you're like oh, i'm, not cool anymore. Yet out ofeighth grade into ninth grades, the same thing you get out of college or ora grad school or whatever you're like okay. This is great. You really need torealize. There are things that you don't know you. You might be verybrilliant and that's fantastic, but you still need to learn and on the flipside, the people that have been doing it need to be willing to teach, and itis great i got to say when you have somebody who can anticipate everything,that's in your head, but when they're not there anymore, because they'removing on or whatever happens, you have to be willing to teach that new person,the best practices and that kind of thing and be willing to takeinformation from them to learn from them. To. I had i had a fieldtechnician probably four years ago that we were, we were drilling and he was inschool to become a geologist, and so he really wanted to log the soils and allthis so i went through a whole bunch of it with him, and then he said. Okay, iwant to do it and he started writing he put on multiple pairs of gloves and hestarted writing down the depths on his glove and the the boring id on hisglove and he would take a picture of the glove and then he would take apicture of the court. Now i always have a paper and take a picture of it andtake a picture of the course. So that was fine, but the fact that he did iton his glove and then use that glove took it off. So we wouldn't contaminatethe next thing and wrote on that club. I this was the most amazing thing ihave learned in forever because you don't have millions of pieces of paperflying around it's all right there and if you start with all the gloves on,then you get down to the last pair at the end and you're good, you haven't,you haven't cross contaminated anything, and so i think you need to you really need to be willing to learnthroughout your entire career and i think sometimes what to me would be apitfall. Is you kind of forget that or you lose that or you'll come in and youhave learned everything i've learned. I don't need to learn any more and itgoes from safety. To i mean coming in, i didn't know anything ididn't know i didn't you know you can see that thingsmaybe might be a little bit unsafe, but i didn't know that there is an actualreason in new york city when you're drilling a hole. You have to go twofeet by two feet by five feet: digging you can't use a rig for that right.Well, there's a reason because it's spaghetti under there and it's a safetything, but it's a best practice. It's it's to keep everybody safe, and so ithink everyone just needs to kind of take a step back and say i can stilllearn and what i have to teach is also...

...important to so it's a two way streetand you can stay out of you- can avoid that pitfall if you're willing to learnconstantly and and teach constantly so good, i'm going to sickle back a minuteto something you said on a while ago, you were talking about as far asavoiding mistakes like not trusting in complete data and accurate dat, so justin general, if you're digging in the soil- and somebody gives you like a map-it says you know the the sewer lines are here in the parlins over therewould. Would you say that it would be maybe in your best interest to not takethat at face value and spend a little bit of time to verify that pipes arewhere they're supposed to be or not, where they're not supposed to be? Yes,absolutely. You know you should you should be able to trust the informationthat you're given, but you may you know the information that you get might beas complete as that person is capable of doing. I had a project a long timeago for a previous company that we had three drill rigs going and someone else was doing the pre clearlogging of the whole, so the two feet by two feet by five feet that i justmentioned. All of that has to get logged on the field form and but the the sand. I guess that was at thebottom of that five feet was more like a beach sand as opposed to what wewould find, naturally in the area, and it wasn't recorded as such, on thefield form. So when i got there with the drill rig and the driller wasstarting to to go, we got down to you know that five foot mark and the augurstarted kind of bouncing up and down, and so both the driller- and i saidthis is very weird: we're going to stop. We had come across cobbles elsewhere.Calls larger size stones that are that are in the sub surface and keeping inmind where we were it was almostly fill. It wasn't a whole lot of natural stuff.That was there. You know m from from the daught time and stuff. So there's alot of fill. We were in a city and so there's just a lot of stuff going onthere underneath the pavement, and so we stopped and i wrote it down in myfield book and i called my supervisor and my supervisor said no, no, no. Thatwas pretty clear. It's okay, i said. Okay, i mean i had the pre clear log infront of me, but it didn't. It didn't alert me that there was something weirdthat i should be on the lookout for, and so we start going again and it'sbouncing dauncing dancing. I stopped it again called the supervisor said this:doesn't this really doesn't feel right and it was a gut feel the driller hadit. I had it and i was told no keep going to keep going stopped it a thirdtime, long story short. We started going again. The auger turned one moretime and up comes the water. We found the missing water line and- and i had had all of the all ofthe plates i had all of the the piping that was marked that should have. We should have been veryclear. We had had a ground penetrating radar, so gp survey don initially sothis this pipe, we didn't know it was there. It shouldn't have been therebased on everything that we had and everything that we knew the water didget turned off. Of course, this happens on a friday after nam. Of course, thatwill just of course, of course it does, but it was a situation where you know i didn't evenrealize i had in complete information. So that's that's the other thing it hasmade me a lot more skeptical when i go out of somebody else has cleared alocation. I don't just drop that. I don't have thedriller to drop that auger down and say: let's, let's get a move on, we are very,very slow and methodical about it, and...

...i know you know that the juniorgeologist that i've had out over the last few years that i've been trainingand stuff, they always say what you're going so slow. I like, where are pipes various lines. Where is that stuffgoing to be? It should be in in the top five feet? I mean at least down here.We don't have to go as deep as they go up in the northeast and i would guesselsewhere in the north, because of freezing temperatures and stuffeverything's a little should be a little bit deeper up there. But, butstill i mean it's, you very slowly very methodical because you just don't knowexactly the information that you have, the data that you have in front of you.Something may or may not be missing, and also, i would say you, youknow absolutely if you got a gut feeling about something trust, your gut.You know it's it's like when you're taking a test-and you know you pick you pick one answer,don't overthink it. If that's what you think the answer is that's what youthink the answer is: don't go back and change it. So don't you know ifsomething feels wrong or off stop that's a great example of a stop workthat i should have stuck to my guns and i didn't if, if i were in thatsituation now i would say i would have had the driller poldie and we would have dug a little bit deepergotten a post hold dig or something like that. And then, if i had seen thatsand, i would have known that it's different the person who was longing.It was not a geologist, so that was the other issue. She wrote down sand. Shewasn't wrong. She just didn't tell me more about the sand. So then i said thedifference is between the different times and and yeah. What is you know?Sand sand is actually a size designation, so it you know, and thenyou classify it as with the color and that so what she had seen and justcalled sand was actually more of a kind of a beach sand for lack of a betterdescription than we as people can understand, as opposed to the normalsand sized darker colored stuff that we see theright it was that fine, green particular stuff, not the big coursesand, yeah yeah. So but you know that's you have to you- have to realize that there's goingto be a limit to the information that you have and if something feels off tryand get more information in the safest way possible. So that would mean if theaugur is bouncing. Stop that's definitely a good indication. Sodo that you know if it's, because the thing is, if we had done a little bitdeeper and saw that it wasn't a cobble if it was a coble. If it was, you knowlike some kind of bigger, bigger thing under there. Okay, we just move it outof the way. That's easy! You dig down a little bit. You see, oh, it's not acobble. What is it? Oh, it's that water line we were looking for. Okay, god ismove, you know it ended up. We ended up, nobody got hurt, nothing was reallydamaged per se. You know the the the place was an apartment complex. They wereable to turn off the water, but of course it was a friday afternoon. Thenwe had to the repair had to happen over the weekend because it was an apartment,complex and all of that everybody. As super happy with you super super happy,you know so it i mean it ended up being a good example of you know, we should have done a stopwork. We should have found out a little bit more information, but nobody gothurt. There wasn't a huge amount of impact after that, so that was good andeven from the business monetary aspect of it. That was way above my pay gradeat the time, but it did work out and it was okay and we didn't lose the clientall of that kind of stuff that the apartment complex was like. Oh wow. Iyou shouldn't have done that and then...

...they looked at their own maps and theysaid oh wow. We should have known where the pipe was. So you know for he's a fortunate teaching momentfor your back. It was a good teaching moment, yeah for sure. Most important thing is thatnobody got hurt and we all made it home just super late on a friday night. So there are worse things: there are whosethings for sure it could have been raining. I could so changing hers alittle bit. Is there something that your team has done recently that are anachievement that they've done that you've been either really really proudof or surprised by the outcome of well a couple. I was actually just lookingthrough our our behavior base safety data because i'm going to be giving alittle presentation on that in a couple of weeks and it has been over over sixyears since we've had a recordable or reportable from our texas group. Sothat's what testing that's pretty great near mistis we've had a gagelin, butthat's good. It's good to have the near misses, because then you you'rerealizing. Oh, that could be a problem, so so that is has been really great,but also just the fact that i have so much data on my bs forms and from thatwe literally a few years ago, one of one of the locations that we work atthe the facility people decided that our folks, before they open a well,they need to set up an exclusion zone. Put on a respirator, then open the welltest. The test for benzie and coming out of itstep out of the exclusion zone. Wait fifteen minutes tested again and then,if it's, if it's allowable amounts or nothing measurable, they can take offthe respirator and continue working whatever it is. If they want tocontinue working. Just you say: they're gauging it's a five hundred foot. Well,so it's going to take a little while right so say they just want to open itand gage it doing it in rest were in a restauroar respiratory protection. Theat first there was a little bit of pushback, but the technicians were likeyou know what we got to do it. We got to do it, it's okay and they do it and there's it's just partof what they do and the the clientactually one of the one of the client contacts up. There would sit there fromyou know, far away and watch them, unbeknown to our technicians and theyactually called and said you know i've been watching since we had these rulesgoing to affect this new procedure and your guys do it every single time theydon't take a short cut, and it wasn't that wasn't one of myprojects, but it was you know the project manager was telling us that andshe's like they grumbled once because he didn't get hot wearing a rest rador.But then they said this is what we have to do and to have our clients say wewere spying on your technicians from far away so that they couldn't see usand they still were doing it right exactly how we had it laid out andexactly how it was supposed to be done. That was fantastic. It's just ingrainedit's just something that is part of what they have to do, and and they'redoing it correctly and there's no fussing about it. There's no whiningabout it. There's just this is how we do this and we make sure that we'redoing it exactly how we're supposed to that to me is a huge win in terms of kind of getting aculture of safety. Really going. You know, i'vehad you know, technicians that otherrefineries who will literally they will stop their car in the middle of theroad in the refinery put on their hazards, get out and move pieces ofequipment out of the roadway that you...

...know if they're there and it's blockedoff you're not going to go that way. So that's okay, but if it's, if it'ssomebody else has missed housekeeping or if it's something that fell offgoodness if it fell off of another truck or something they literally willmove it out of the way and make a phone call or go into the office and tell somebodyhey, there's this piece of equipment- or there was this left over here. Idon't know whose it is, but i moved it out of the road that kind of thinglooking out for not only themselves in the work that they're doing, buteverybody else around is a huge testament to. I think, the safetyculture that we've developed and and kind of fostered here- it's let's imean let's be on safety. Training can be very boring wore. I don't know whatyou're talking about ashley, especially when you know you take your basicorientation plus every year or your has lover represser every year. It's notit's not necessarily like the information really changes. It's likecpr rightthey change it every now and again, but i think it's just to keeppeople interested now. For the most part, it's the same. The same stuff.You i know, but you got to go through the training anyway, because i thinkthat, but it's you know it's the fact thatthey, it's not even a question now to to do that, to pay better attention todo a three sixty walk around their truck to make sure they're not going todrive into anything to if the facility requires it to backinto your parking space. I know not all facilities require that, but most ofthe guys that that i work with are back or inners. I am too, for you know sincetaken any number of safety courses and driving courses and stuff, and it'strue that you know when you get somewhere, youhave a little bit more time unless you're running super late, yougenerally have a little bit more time. You can take time if you back into thatparking space, then, when you're ready to go, you just have to look straightahead. A check around make sure it's safe to pull out straight as opposed tobacking up, which is the more dangerous action. So i just really it makes mereally proud that you know the people that i work withreally take it seriously and it's a d and they you know they whether they would say it this way ornot. They want their co workers and everybody else to go home in the sameor better condition. It's just a part of what we do, and i you know i don'tthink it's. I don't think it's necessarily like that everywhere,because again, if you're getting if you're getting that budget pressure orthat we got to make this time pressure, that's one of the first things that cango out of the window. Oh, i can just make this short, quick short cut. Don'tdo it, don't don't do it? It's not worth it's not worth the ten seconds you'regoing to save if something bad happens, break up, but that really makes me veryproud is that everybody's everybody takes ownership of that and it'simportant to everybody whether or not they say it, it's their actions that are showing it.So that is definitely something to be proud of yeah, so good job to you andyour team. That's very commendable on we're out of time for this week, sowe've been on with julia wilson, their regional health and safety manager andsenior geologist at earth. Cone and you've been listening to the safetymanagement show brought to you by safety services company thanks forjoining us in need of a blue print for workplacesafety and compliance safety services company is north america's leadingprovider of safety, training and compliant solutions. We supply customsafety, manials and policies and on sight and online training solutionsthat will enhance the safety of your workplace and our compliance serviceswill see you time and resources guaranteeing peace of mind witheighteen years in the industry we have a proven track record of helpingcustomers achieved better safety outcomes by providing customizesolutions that fit the unique needs of each business to learn more had tosafety services. Companyon...

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